dak cap

[Glenn McInnes]

The 2nd cap looks to have the full set of fake insignia, matching the eagle I posted earlier, IMO

Here is the cockade.

Jerry

Yes also I thought that they appeared to be the same or from the same source.




Glenn

[90th Light]

The 2nd cap looks to have the full set of fake insignia, matching the eagle I posted earlier, IMO

Here is the cockade.

Jerry

The eagle on the cap which Glenn has posted in post number 20 is not the same as the fake one you have posted in post number 12.

As Tim has already stated, have a look at the difference in the detail of the eagles feet

and the easy way to tell. Look at the second lower line of curved wing feathers because there you will see the giveaway detail of that fake eagle shown in post number 12.

From what I can tell via a computer screen the eagle looks to be original and as Mark has speculated (unless he means the cap which started this thread ?) the cockade could be one the types after the first model but I would need a hands on to be able to say more,

Chris

[OSS]

IMO Good insignia, bad cap. Have had one very similar to this one. Thin soutache, just a size marking, no makers mark. Eagle flipped over top sewn, then flipped down and finished, double stitch line just at the rear for a small portion. One difference is mine has a three part sweatband applied. Bill not sewn on in symmetrical fashion.
Photos of the grommets will confirm if this is the same "fake" maker for me.
If so it may be from Poland or Eastern Europe made in the 80's.

I am in complete agreement with this appraisal, don't let good sense be compromised by wishful thinking.

[pauke]

cap

Just above the soutache the vertical stitching either side of the seam goes over the silver piping on the scallop. Bizarre construction.

[NZMark]

Insignia comparison for the second cap posted.
Mark.

[90th Light]

I am in complete agreement with this appraisal, don't let good sense be compromised by wishful thinking.

It is those "Pink Smocks" again



Chris

[MilitaryCollect]

dak cap

Hello,

Here's another offered on gunboards.

C.

[OSS]

It is those "Pink Smocks" again



Chris

If you are suggesting that because some collectors are uncertain about these caps that there is some possibility that they may be genuine, you are fooling yourself (IMO). Both of these caps (M-40 Officers) are fakes. As for the "Pink" smocks you need to ask someone else.

[John Hodgin]

If you are suggesting that because some collectors are uncertain about these caps that there is some possibility that they may be genuine, you are fooling yourself (IMO). Both of these caps (M-40 Officers) are fakes. As for the "Pink" smocks you need to ask someone else.

Amen!

In this case, Mr. Singer's usual comment is a gross understatement, for with these caps, there is no doubt to entertain.

[90th Light]

If you are suggesting that because some collectors are uncertain about these caps that there is some possibility that they may be genuine, you are fooling yourself (IMO). Both of these caps (M-40 Officers) are fakes. As for the "Pink" smocks you need to ask someone else.

I have stated the facts as they are known to date.

Nothing more, nothing less.

If you want to use the word "genuine" in what you write then so be it to write what you think but I have not written that any where in my posts that I can see.

Of course if you have objective facts to add then please do not hold back but if you are only sharing your subjective feelings then that is what they are noted as,

Chris

[OSS]

I clearly recall a US militaria dealer at a show in the 80's who had a half dozen of the first officer's cap which started the thread under his table, at least 3 of which had orange Feldgendarmerie soutache in several large sizes (size only). A few unwitting collectors could be observed concealing their newly acquired treasure in a clandestine manner, like they had been sworn to secrecy. The fact is had the dealer even displayed one of these ridiculously rare caps it would have invited unwelcome scrutiny. It would not surprise me to find that not one Nebel officer's M-40 had ever been contracted. (Yes, I am aware that a Nebel unit served in Tunisia). My statement here, of course, is anectdotal and you can make of it what you will.

[NZMark]

I would be interested to know if the interior of the grommets of the cap that started this thread look like this...?
Mark

[90th Light]

I clearly recall a US militaria dealer at a show in the 80's who had a half dozen of the first officer's cap which started the thread under his table, at least 3 of which had orange Feldgendarmerie soutache in several large sizes (size only). A few unwitting collectors could be observed concealing their newly acquired treasure in a clandestine manner, like they had been sworn to secrecy. The fact is had the dealer even displayed one of these ridiculously rare caps it would have invited unwelcome scrutiny. It would not surprise me to find that not one Nebel officer's M-40 had ever been contracted. (Yes, I am aware that a Nebel unit served in Tunisia). My statement here, of course, is anectdotal and you can make of it what you will.

Anectdotal may but also very interesting. I have never seen one of these no maker M40 caps with an orange soutache so even for one of these "Pink Smock" tropical caps, that is a rare beast indeed but an interesting addition to what I knew about them.

As far as a soutache tropical M40 for Nebel Abteilungen, I have not been lucky enough to ever get one of those from a veteran source but I do see that there is one shown on page 141 of the book "Afrikakorps" by Robert Kurtz (Schiffer 2004) This cap is attributed to the David Bunch collection so I can only assume that it is a real cap and unalterated because David only has "beyond doubt caps". Proof enough that Nebel soutached M40's existed but to say that they are very rare would be an understatement.

Anyway I am not convinced myself that the cap which started this thread is an original period cap, I do however remain open minded but would advise any one against holding their breath on this one (but who knows),

Chris

[B. N. Singer]

...Anyway I am not convinced myself that the cap which started this thread is an original period cap, I do however remain open minded but would advise any one against holding their breath on this one (but who knows),

Chris

Ha, ha, ha, being that open minded is a sure cause for blindness!

B. N. Singer

[90th Light]

Ha, ha, ha, being that open minded is a sure cause for blindness!

B. N. Singer

I would rather be open-minded than narrow-minded any day.

Narrow minded people have a lot to answer for both in history and the world of today

And coming back to Militaria, here is but one example although I can provide you with several examples just like this;

many years ago, in fact more than I care to remember,
I got a black SS 4 year service medal which was fantastic quality. Got in
touch with the so called experts like you Mr Singer in that field and ask if I
had got it right. They said no and sent me photos of what a real one
should look like. Mine was clearly different.

Well some one offered me $20 to take the fake off my hands but I said no
and put it in my "grey-area" draw. The quality just said real to me and I
liked it.

Turns out now they have had a rethink about those and there are two
official makers; Deschler and P&L (Petz & Lorenz). My one is a 101% P&L. What the experts
compared with was the Deschler which was the only officially recognised
one long before the time of the internet. Now with the internet and more collectors on the
case, the P&L have been proved to be original and are quite sought after.

I have no dreams what so ever of this happening with these tropical M40
caps but just wanted to show you how items some from my grey-area have
come through for me over the years. In fact I have had quite a few success
and really enjoyed everyone of them.

For now that non maker marked tropical M40 is in the grey-grey-grey-zone
and will probably stay there but I find them interesting and I am lucky
enough to have several beyond doubt originals to compare them with so
overall I really enjoy them.

And by the way have a nice Christmas,

Chris