dak cap

[90th Light]

Agree, ..........and have written a few books. Jacques

Jacques

The only book mentioned on this thread is the one by Robert Kurtz. Unless you are making reference to John Hodgin who has also written one.

This is a real insult to two excellent books on the subject and the people who wrote them,

Chris

[jacquesf]

Jacques

The only book mentioned on this thread is the one by Robert Kurtz. Unless you are making reference to John Hodgin who has also written one.

This is a real insult to two excellent books on the subject and the people who wrote them,

Chris

You are obviously not very bright, if that is your interpretation. Not surprising though. Try to see it in context of Mark G's post. Jacques

[Silesien]

By the way, for the sake of accuracy, Breslau ( now known as Wroclaw ) was not in East Prussia ; it was in Silesia ( Lower Silesia ).

[John Hodgin]

Appears to be original cap with soutache removed, markings washed out, and sadly, insignia replaced.

Again, absolutely agree with OSS.

Chris, this cap has been significantly cleaned, which in many cases would indeed removed the ink used for markings, especially if dry cleaning fluids were ever used.

[John Hodgin]

2/ This officer cap has a makers name which is not always seen in an officer cap. Not only is it maker marked but we also have the makers location and that is in "Breslau" which was East Prussia but is now part of Poland today.

Chris

Chris, the worn Luftwaffe tunic illustrated on pages 151, 152, and 153 of my book was manufactured in Breslau. It was not manufactured there for "wear in the east." It was standard Luftwaffe production and issued and worn in the west, in Africa and Italy.

To claim that manufacturers in the east produced uniforms for wear in Russia and the Balkans is inaccurate and misleading.

John

[90th Light]

You are obviously not very bright, if that is your interpretation. Not surprising though. Try to see it in context of Mark G's post. Jacques

No I am bright enough to know which books and authors that you are trying to sling off but even on that you are wrong and they have set new standards in Schiffer books.

My posting also shows how what you wrote can be interpreted and I repeat is an insult to both the books and those who put the hard work in to write them,

Chris

[90th Light]

Chris, the worn Luftwaffe tunic illustrated on pages 151, 152, and 153 of my book was manufactured in Breslau. It was not manufactured there for "wear in the east." It was standard Luftwaffe production and issued and worn in the west, in Africa and Italy.

To claim that manufacturers in the east produced uniforms for wear in Russia and the Balkans is inaccurate and misleading.

John

Hello John,

I note your point about the cap being washed

If I implied that all items made in Breslau were intended for the Eastern front then that was not what I meant. Breslau is closer to the east than the west but what I was trying to show was a cap with the rarely seen aluminum grommets and interestingly made in Breslau which was close to Poland.

The point being as I explained to Mark, when this thread started some stated that a tropical cap without a maker was not a good sign and that Aluminum grommets are bad. This is not correct but such features of a cap are rare.

I was also trying to show why I have given the caps like the one which started the thread some consideration and I continue to investigate.

I repeat however, I am in no way convinced that the cap which stated this thread is original but I remain open minded and thus keep researching them,

Regards, Chris

[jacquesf]

No I am bright enough to know which books and authors that you are trying to sling off but even on that you are wrong and they have set new standards in Schiffer books.

My posting also shows how what you wrote can be interpreted and I repeat is an insult to both the books and those who put the hard work in to write them,

Chris

I will keep an open mind with regards to you brightness, other might disagree, but I will have to research it some more. Your friend Jacques

[90th Light]

I will keep an open mind with regards to you brightness, other might disagree, but I will have to research it some more. Your friend Jacques

Yes you are my friend Jacques and it is good you have taken my meaning because the books you are trying to put down are one of the best efforts that many have seen to date and I fully recommend them to you or anyone with an interest in the subject.

Now perhaps enough said and lets get the discussion back to the caps,

Chris

[90th Light]

By the way, for the sake of accuracy, Breslau ( now known as Wroclaw ) was not in East Prussia ; it was in Silesia ( Lower Silesia ).

Yes, I have just looked it up and it would be closer to West Prussia rather than East Prussia.

Would I be correct in saying that this is your part of the world ?

Chris

[John Hodgin]

The point being as I explained to Mark, when this thread started some stated that a tropical cap without a maker was not a good sign and that Aluminum grommets are bad. This is not correct but such features of a cap are rare.

I repeat however, I am in no way convinced that the cap which stated this thread is original but I remain open minded and thus keep researching them,

Regards, Chris

Any mint or near mint cap without a maker mark (or RB) and size is not only "not a good sign" Chris, in fact it is reason for complete damn-nation. No period German cap would have left a factory without a size stamp of some kind, this was essential for issue.

But I fear even stating this is giving to much information to the bad guys. Many early fakes have either no makers mark, or totally absurd "made up" maker marks. Despite claims to the contrary, many fakers have no idea what the proper mark is for an early M40, or how the insignia should be applied for a Halfar vs a Lubstein. Sadly, and horribly, too much of this information is being tossed about here and the bad guys are learning. Thankfully, so far no IDIOT has published or posted in depth photos of all the M40 manufacturer's marks or the marks of any other producers of German WWII uniforms. Although some marks were shown in the Kurtz DAK book, and I wish they had not been, thankfully they were not linked to specific uniforms. Readers here may not venture to the Fj Forum much, but you will NEVER see photos there of early jump smock manufacturers markings! To post these markings would be insane!

Regarding your last comment, good Chris, for (IMHO) the only genuine caps on this thread are your two side caps. Willi often says, study genuine pieces, do not dwell on the fakes. It would be good to learn who is producing caps like the one which began this thread, but no matter how much reseach is done, it is still crap. IMHO of course.

Merry Christmas to all!
John

[Lenny W]

Any mint or near mint cap without a maker mark (or RB) and size is not only "not a good sign" Chris, in fact it is reason for complete damn-nation. No period German cap would have left a factory without a size stamp of some kind, this was essential for issue.

But I fear even stating this is giving to much information to the bad guys. Many early fakes have either no makers mark, or totally absurd made up maker marks. Despite claims to the contrary, many fakers have no idea what the proper mark is for an early M40, or how the insignia should be applied for a Halfar vs a Lubstein. Sadly, and horribly, too much of this information is being tossed about here and the bad guys are learning. Thankfully, so far no IDIOT has published or posted in depth photos of all the M40 manufacturer's marks or the marks of any other producers of German WWII uniforms. Although some marks were shown in the Kurtz DAK book, and I wish they had not been, thankfully they were not linked to specific uniforms. Readers here may not venture to the Fj Forum much, but you will NEVER see photos there of early jump smock manufacturers markings! To post these marking would be insane!

Regarding your last comment, good Chris, for (IMHO) the only genuine caps on this thread are your two side caps. Willi often says, study genuine pieces, do not dwell on the fakes. It would be good to learn who is producing caps like the one which began this thread, but no matter how much reseach is done, it is still crap. IMHO of course.

Merry Christmas to all!
John

well put John

[jacquesf]

..

[BenVK]

Merry Christmas to all

A couple of points I'd like to pick up on.

I think it's a complete waste of time trying to associate any item of uniform to a particular area of operations based on where it was made.

That is, unless the information was still to hand and someone could trace the source and location of manufacture, through to the supply source then onto which unit recieved the items, when it was and where were they deployed after that. Even then, unless a pattern could be established by comparing more than one manufacturer, that information would be pretty useless within the bigger picture.

In all honesty, I very much doubt such detailed records ever existed despite what we assume about German bureaucracy and it's my opinion based on supply and demand manufacture, that whoever could have produced the equipement to the deadline and in the right quantities/price etc would have gotten the contract, no matter where the location of the manufacturing factory was. Transportation was surely not a great cause of concern to Germany until Allied airpower crippled it later on in the war. Maybe that's why a lot of period photos exist of Volkssturm in Berlin wearing fresh trop clothing? they just couldn't ship it to where it had meant to go anymore.

The 2nd point I wanted say was that although we all hate accurate reproductions meant to fool, they are certainly not "crap". It takes a lot of skill to make something like this so even though it's a double edged sword, it's good to know that the hat making skills are still alive. Anyone who has studied Germany and how celebrated the hand making crafts were has to recognise this fact. In a very strange twist of irony, our lust for these things are keeping the craft alive. Don't blame the people who make these very well made objects, blame the greedy money barons who commision them to be made in the first place to rip us off. In any case, such practices are nothing new, just ask the Egyptians!

Cheers
Ben

[NZMark]

Regarding your last comment, good Chris, for (IMHO) the only genuine caps on this thread are your two side caps. Willi often says, study genuine pieces, do not dwell on the fakes. It would be good to learn who is producing caps like the one which began this thread, but no matter how much reseach is done, it is still crap. IMHO of course.

John,
I might be misreading this, but are you stating my two m40's (posted in this thread) are reproductions or altered originals in some way?
I otherwise agree with your posting...
Regards,
Mark