SS M43 Panzer Cap

[besslein]

i do own one real SS panzer cap not hbt lining by the way

[B. N. Singer]

i do own one real SS panzer cap not hbt lining by the way

Ah, someone willing to come forth with something other than endless wordy tripe; I would like to see more of that example if possible.
Thank you for posting it.
B. N. Singer

[besslein]

lining in my cap with owner initials tag sewn .

[Mike Davis]

I do not own an example of a black SS Pz M43 hat (other that the “Dachau” variety) with a trapezoid insignia or HBT lining. Further more to my best recollection I do not remember ever having seen one with those specific features that I was comfortable with.

Does that mean that they could not have been produced, of course not; as you state, there were thousands of hats manufactured and only a small fraction likely survived.

You are correct also when assessing my “collecting mantra” be SAFE rather than SORRY (especially in today’s world).

These comments mirror my own views/experiences but like others that have commented here, I too have an open mind on the topic. Hopefully Chris will finally post photos of the vet sourced caps in order to add to our collective knowledge.

Regarding photos from Bryon's collection, some of us have posted on his behalf over the years and we're hoping he'll upgrade his camera soon and be able to share more.

[90th Light]

Ah, someone willing to come forth with something other than endless wordy tripe; I would like to see more of that example if possible.
Thank you for posting it.
B. N. Singer

Mr Singer there is no point in banging on endlessly about the length of my posts that will not work and I will not take the bait. Too long in the tooth to fall for that but on a positive note it is heartening to see others now getting involved in this thread,

Chris

[billbert]

From what I can see from the fotos I kinda like bessleins ss m43 panzer..Billbert

[Leroy]

See Post 11 here for 2 caps from Herr Singer: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=466406

[besslein]

From what I can see from the fotos I kinda like bessleins ss m43 panzer..Billbert

ah my cap is good,i will be a big suprise if this one turn to be fake the only answer in that case will be,he was ripped of in depot when he has get the cap in 1944 and bring home for walking out in Urlaub.
yes I have found the cap via owner family,even the initials tag match.

[Lenny W]

Hello Mike,

I can see that you are sincere in this matter, take on board what you say and I am weighing up the pros and cons of this request for example the cap was part of a nice grouping of items so do I post the whole find so you can all appreciate what it was found with.

My M43 with trap was not the only NZ veteran brought back lot from Austria 1945 that we came across. One of the other groupings of items which we got the opportunity to inspect also had an M43 in field grey with trap. Sadly the veteran did not want to sell that lot but we got to take some pictures. These were until today only in existance on the negatives from when they were photographed many years ago but this thread has prompted me to go look them out and get them put on to disk plus printed so I may start by posting those.

I will have to look my cap out and arrange to have some images taken to be able to add my one to this thread so I can not post anything quickly and I still have not settled in my own mine if it will be nothing more than a tree falling in the middle of a forest. What noise or difference will that make for others reading this who have already made up their minds about these M43's long ago.

Anyway I will get my photos back tomorrow so that might be the starting point and in the mean time who knows may be someone else will post images of an interesting example which they might have or know about because at the end of the day there are perfectly original exampls of SS M43's with traps and HBT linings out there.

Lets not lose sight of the fact that there is also a lot of resistance to many/ all SS M43's with traps as well and I note that you yourself by your own admission do not seem to have any examples except those with the Dachau type trap.

Appreciate your input,

Chris

its been awhile Chris for the last time how about those pics please so we can move on

[Rick C]

I speak not for the cap in question either yea or nay but for the apparent belief that a unsubstantiated comment “this is not one (IMHO) I would choose” should suffice to trash a cap.

No offense but, Mr. Singer’s signature response “I could entertain doubts” holds, for me, as much credence or authority as Mattel’s Magic 8-ball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_8-Ball). The hollow plastic sphere resembling an oversized, black and white 8-ball, having an icosahedral die floating in alcohol which, when asked a question, yields the wisdom of the sphere. While the 20 standard answers on a Magic 8-Ball are:
● As I see it, yes
● It is certain
● It is decidedly so
● Most likely
● Outlook good
● Signs point to yes
● Without a doubt
● Yes
● Yes – definitely
● You may rely on it
● Reply hazy, try again
● Ask again later
● Better not tell you now
● Cannot predict now
● Concentrate and ask again
● Don't count on it
● My reply is no
● My sources say no
● Outlook not so good
● Very doubtful
While the responses above might, most often, do it for some in collecting militaria, I’m quite sure, that there exists somewhere, a variant of Mattel’s 8-Ball articulates the answer “I could entertain doubts.”

Why is it so difficult for some, who have a wealth of information they ‘might’ share, thereby benefiting the community, to actually articulate what they know, to document their opinions, rather than behave like they’re some ‘oracle’ who’s pronouncement should be more than enough for us lesser beings. Reading through 108 odd posts to find limited factual evidence presented is a tad frustrating for me.

[B. N. Singer]

I speak not for the cap in question either yea or nay but for the apparent belief that a unsubstantiated comment “this is not one (IMHO) I would choose” should suffice to trash a cap.

No offense but, Mr. Singer’s signature response “I could entertain doubts” holds, for me, as much credence or authority as Mattel’s Magic 8-ball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_8-Ball). The hollow plastic sphere resembling an oversized, black and white 8-ball, having an icosahedral die floating in alcohol which, when asked a question, yields the wisdom of the sphere. While the 20 standard answers on a Magic 8-Ball are:
● As I see it, yes
● It is certain
● It is decidedly so
● Most likely
● Outlook good
● Signs point to yes
● Without a doubt
● Yes
● Yes – definitely
● You may rely on it
● Reply hazy, try again
● Ask again later
● Better not tell you now
● Cannot predict now
● Concentrate and ask again
● Don't count on it
● My reply is no
● My sources say no
● Outlook not so good
● Very doubtful
While the responses above might, most often, do it for some in collecting militaria, I’m quite sure, that there exists somewhere, a variant of Mattel’s 8-Ball articulates the answer “I could entertain doubts.”

Why is it so difficult for some, who have a wealth of information they ‘might’ share, thereby benefiting the community, to actually articulate what they know, to document their opinions, rather than behave like they’re some ‘oracle’ who’s pronouncement should be more than enough for us lesser beings. Reading through 108 odd posts to find limited factual evidence presented is a tad frustrating for me.

Ha, ha, and none taken. You are Absolutely correct, no one should take anyone’s opinion if they deem it to have a lack of creditability.

Any sign of those elusive, vet acquired hats?

B. N. Singer

[Glenn McInnes]

I speak not for the cap in question either yea or nay but for the apparent belief that a unsubstantiated comment “this is not one (IMHO) I would choose” should suffice to trash a cap.

No offense but, Mr. Singer’s signature response “I could entertain doubts” holds, for me, as much credence or authority as Mattel’s Magic 8-ball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_8-Ball). The hollow plastic sphere resembling an oversized, black and white 8-ball, having an icosahedral die floating in alcohol which, when asked a question, yields the wisdom of the sphere. While the 20 standard answers on a Magic 8-Ball are:
● As I see it, yes
● It is certain
● It is decidedly so
● Most likely
● Outlook good
● Signs point to yes
● Without a doubt
● Yes
● Yes – definitely
● You may rely on it
● Reply hazy, try again
● Ask again later
● Better not tell you now
● Cannot predict now
● Concentrate and ask again
● Don't count on it
● My reply is no
● My sources say no
● Outlook not so good
● Very doubtful
While the responses above might, most often, do it for some in collecting militaria, I’m quite sure, that there exists somewhere, a variant of Mattel’s 8-Ball articulates the answer “I could entertain doubts.”

Why is it so difficult for some, who have a wealth of information they ‘might’ share, thereby benefiting the community, to actually articulate what they know, to document their opinions, rather than behave like they’re some ‘oracle’ who’s pronouncement should be more than enough for us lesser beings. Reading through 108 odd posts to find limited factual evidence presented is a tad frustrating for me.

Well then,perhaps have a look at this. There are none more experienced on these Forums than him,so be happy he is here.

Pay particular note to "Albert's" post #3.


http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...32#post1763232



Glenn

[Gary Wood]

Well then,perhaps have a look at this.


http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...32#post1763232



Glenn

Glenn,
That thread is in the cellblock so members will not be able to see it,
Cheers
Gary

[Glenn McInnes]

Glenn,
That thread is in the cellblock so members will not be able to see it,
Cheers
Gary

Thanks Gary...Just let it out on a 3 day pass.






Glenn

[B. N. Singer]

Well then,perhaps have a look at this...http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...32#post1763232



Glenn

Oh my Lawd, now I am embarrassed; Thank you anyway Mr. McInnes.

Best regards,
Bryon