H.G. Panzer Beret

[Bob Hritz]

A period photo would increase the value, substancially.

Bob Hritz

[Arran]

If this unique style of eagle was purpose-made for the beret, why wouldn't it have been made with a black backing? The dark blue doesn't make sense to me for a beret...

[tgn]

If this unique style of eagle was purpose-made for the beret, why wouldn't it have been made with a black backing? The dark blue doesn't make sense to me for a beret...

Who said it was purpose-made for berets. It is just a rare type eagle that happenend to be used on this particualr beret, along wiith a similar coler cockade (propbably a KM cockade). It might have simply been the darkest background eagle they had handy to put on the beret. Certainly better than jsut using a gray backed embroidered eagle.

Tom

[billbert]

Someone needs to post benders hitlers headgear vol 1 bottom of page 308 comments and thru to 309 and including FOTO ca 1939 mark four panzers with bereted drivers at goring home station berlin reinickendorf via peterson via noted goring div author alfred otte..And also whomever knows george peterson can let him weight in on this too!!Billbert
As far as the bevo eagle maybe it was originally not made for beret..perhaps a sport kit cap eagle OR maybe goring was going to have them in a dark blue instead of black.. I would also postulate a berlin area insignia effects contactor with ties to schellenberg perhaps had only a box bevo roll made for this small group..nothing but the best for hermanns boys...

[Bob Hritz]

The more I think about the markings, in the crash helmet, the less important it is. There were two berets brought back, one with a gray tam cover and black crash helmet. Who is to say the tam covers were not switched, by the vet or his pals, as they looked for 'hidden treasure'. I have had plenty of vet acquired daggers with the wrong scabbards and other anomolies like a Waffen-SS officer hat with luft EM wreath, added by the vet, because 'something was missing" from the hat.

I have two berets and I can't pull either sweat band down as the oilcloth lining material is firmly stuck to the reverse of the sweatbands. I really never bothered to attempt to look as I don't want to damage the crash helmets.

All I know is that when a photo shows the Luft beret being worn, there will be one lucky buyer.

Bob Hritz

ps: I really don't care as I am still pining away over the missed SS Panzer beret sold by the same seller.

[Willi Z.]

Is that an "I don't care for it" Willi??

B. N. Singer

Bryon, I have doubts, concerns and continue to remain suspicious. But, I am keeping my mind open. That being said, it is certainly not about I like it or not. I am just trying to point out what we know and what all the "what ifs" are on what could be an exceptionally rare item.

[Willi Z.]

Someone needs to post benders hitlers headgear vol 1 bottom of page 308 comments and thru to 309 and including FOTO ca 1939 mark four panzers with bereted drivers at goring home station berlin reinickendorf via peterson via noted goring div author alfred otte

Here is the photo of what appears to be 4 Pz IV "D" models. Impossible to tell much of anything from the photo but I most certainly trust George Petersen on this one. So, it this the Panzer Späh Zug?

The book states that "in April of 1938 the black Panzer beret (Schutzmütze) was introduced for use within the Luftwaffe, to be worn by crews of armored vehicles, armored reconnaissance cars, and tank crews of the RGG." That passage is footnoted to "Besondere Luftwaffe-Bestinmmungen, Nr. 161, 23 April 1938, p. 97." We still have the issue of what armor and what units beyond the Späh Zug.

It also states that the standard Heer model was used and it is "believed" that the Luftwaffe national emblem, machine-embroidered on black, and that the national colors cockade, also on a black backing, was used.

So, what type of insignia? Bevo on black? Embroidered on wool? I still would have a tough time with a Heer unit marked and '40 dated depot marked beret being linked to a unit in 1938. Was this unit disbanded as my earlier source (the early Bender book on HG) claimed? I suspect a Heer beret modified for RGG use would also be RGG unit marked, as almost all 1938 dated Luftwaffe uniforms were (especially RGG and FJ).

Obviously, the key is seeing a portrait type photo.

Sorry for not cheer leading on this one yet......

[tgn]

The more I think about the markings, in the crash helmet, the less important it is. There were two berets brought back, one with a gray tam cover and black crash helmet. Who is to say the tam covers were not switched, by the vet or his pals, as they looked for 'hidden treasure'.
Bob Hritz

Wow Bob, you must have read my mind, or vice versa, as that exact thought just came to my mind while reading Willi's last commnet on the markings in the base. Would be nice to know what happened to that other beret...

Tom

[J Melvin]

According to a review I just read of a book that I don't have, The History of the Fallschirm-Panzer Korps Hermann Goring" by Franz Kurowski has photos of the beret in wear. If anyone has that reference and can look at it....

[Homer Hodge]

Kurowski's book has one photo of two individuals (officers?) wearing the first model Panzer wrapper with piped collar and berets. However, the berets have Heer insignia (eagle and oakleaves with kokarde) rather than LW insignia. The right sleeve of only one of the two is visible and it does not have a cufftitle. Breast eagles are not sufficiently visible to tell whether they are LW or Heer. The caption indicates the photo is from 1940.

[Homer Hodge]

Over the last year or so, George Petersen has provided me a great deal of photographs and documents related to RGG/HG Division in order to do historical research on this unit. I have spent the last several hours combing through all of it in search of any photos or commentary regarding Panzer berets. So far, I've not found anything but I still have a lot of material to go through yet. If I find anything, I'll post it on this thread.

[Leroy]

From "Die Weissen Spiegel-Von Regiment zum Fallschirm-Panzerkorps" by Alfred Otte, page 60: "Vor die Front der angetretenen Kompanie gerufen, erhalten einige Soldaten ihre wohlverdienten Auszeichnungen. Am linken Flugel zwei Unteroffiziere des Panzerspah-Zuges, dessen Soldaten noch das spater abgeschaffte schwarze Panzerbarett tragen." To me, at least, the insignia on the wrap is clearly LW, the piping is white and the belt buckles are LW. It's a close call on the beret, but I would have to say also LW.

[Chris]

Which unit of the RGG had any armor before 1942?

The one this guy was in apparently.

[Mike Davis]

Very interesting images. The beret in the shot posted by Chris would seem to have embroidered insignia.

[Willi Z.]

The one this guy was in apparently.

Apparently. I asked that question after people were blessing the beret without discussing which unit could have worn one. We all know, at this point, that there was a Panzer Späh Zug very early on.