Black Panzer sidecap real ?or not .

[Richard P]

Photo 4 for DRS. Edge showing none of the brushed on black stuff.

[DRS]

Black Panzer sidecap real ?or not .

Richard,

Thank you for posting my photos. Am very curious to hear from other members about the hat's authenticity.

Thank you all again!

David

[Lenny W]

me to especially about this paticular type of vent grommets

[John Huff]

David,

If your grommets look like the ones in post #18, then John Huff does not like them if I understand him correctly. I too would like to see some grommets from another CW overseas cap.

Richard

I haven't seen it all... but yes, I don't like the grommets. WW2 grommets are hard to impossible to get and the fakers use what is available...

[billbert]

New owner (not me) is quite pleased with his new panzer sidecap...Billbert
I do like it more than i dont.................

[90th Light]

I haven't seen it all... but yes, I don't like the grommets. WW2 grommets are hard to impossible to get and the fakers use what is available...

John, what do you mean by WW2 grommets ? Are you referring to the zinc types found in DAK/tropical WH caps which Tim has posted images of ?

If so then the rule of thumb which you state is a good one. Although one can also encounter magnetic grommets in tropical caps as well but not as often.

When it comes to WH M34 sidecaps or Panzer M40 sidecaps this rule does not apply as strictly. Sure many manufacturers used the zinc ones to which you refer but other makers used other types and one can encounter a variety of types used depending on the maker involved and when the cap was made.

All the grommets illustrated in this thread are perfectly acceptable grommets for WH M34's or Panzer M40's Some however not commonly encountered and resemble closely certain types which continued to be produced after the war and hence why collectors are wary of such types.

One thing I like is when a non-regular grommet is magnetic often with a brass/goldie type coating, others have zinc coatings, some are just natural steel and a few are blued.

The use of brass grommets is rare in EM caps but occurs in the odd case esp with early M34's or private purchase caps. Officers M38 sidecaps are another story however and here brass grommets simular to what you can find in SA Coffee can hats can be encountered along with magnetic versions.

In fact if you make a study of officers M38 sidecaps it will not be long before you encounter these Clemens Wagner type grommets pictured here.

Personally I see nothing wrong with them and although I would like a hands on inspection of the Clemens Wagner Panzer sidecap to be sure, my feeling is that who ever has bought the cap which started this thread has in fact got an original cap.

With respect, Chris

[phild]

John, what do you mean by WW2 grommets ? Are you referring to the zinc types found in DAK/tropical WH caps which Tim has posted images of ?

If so then the rule of thumb which you state is a good one. Although one can also encounter magnetic grommets in tropical caps as well but not as often.

When it comes to WH M34 sidecaps or Panzer M40 sidecaps this rule does not apply as strictly. Sure many manufacturers used the zinc ones to which you refer but other makers used other types and one can encounter a variety of types used depending on the maker involved and when the cap was made.

All the grommets illustrated in this thread are perfectly acceptable grommets for WH M34's or Panzer M40's Some however not commonly encountered and resemble closely certain types which continued to be produced after the war and hence why collectors are wary of such types.

One thing I like is when a non-regular grommet is magnetic often with a brass/goldie type coating, others have zinc coatings, some are just natural steel and a few are blued.

The use of brass grommets is rare in EM caps but occurs in the odd case esp with early M34's or private purchase caps. Officers M38 sidecaps are another story however and here brass grmmets simular to what you can find in SA Coffee can hats can be encountered along with magnetic versions.

In fact if you make a study of officers M38 sidecaps it will not be long before you encounter these Clemens Wagner type grommets pictured here.

Personally I see nothing wrong with them and although I would like a hands on inspection of the Clemens Wagner Panzer sidecap to be sure, my feeling is that who ever has bought the cap which started this thread has in fact got an original cap.

With respect, Chris

I agree entirely. The above also reflects my experience in this area.

[Richard P]

90th Light and Phild,

Thanks for the confirmation. I just let this thread go as I didn't want to be seen as some sort of Crusader of the Lost Cause. I emailed the owner and told him I felt the caps were good, in hand they are extremely well made and if the rivet is the deciding factor the cap is original.

Richard P

[Tim O'Keefe]

Thanks, Richard & Chris, very interesting to learn of the different types of grommets found on Herr caps when compared to tropical caps...

with appreciation
Tim

[billbert]

Definately more funner than coins and stamps!!Billbert

[all1knew]

For reference:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=640802

William Kramer