Opinions on an ErEl Arty Off Cap

[NTZ]

Nick, I'm personaly 50/50 with this one let's see what the others have to say.
and hey Nick, make sure you come back one peice . Just kidding, good lack

Well Tony we are thinking alike then. I am about 45/55% leaning every closer to not liking it at all. A handful of new pics could open the door to more red flags or slam the door shut on existing ones. Unfortunately for you guys they are operating on my foot and not my mouth.

[stonemint]

Once again, I am late for the show. The bright non-patinaed grommet got me--every hat I have ever had had patina on the brass--but the shape is Erel (unlike that earlier 80's superfake).

Once again, we have the issue of the untreated pasteboard--I have never seen it until the Medical Albert posted yesterday, and I am still willing to give that one the benefit of the doubt--but an Erel w/o it? Almost all of us have (or have had) Erels--can anyone else point to a single Erel they had w/o the treated pasteboard??

I'm leaning "Franky"--it just blows my mind how good this one is, and the fact that they used Artillery instead of Propaganda, etc.

Stez, your thoughts???

[Albert]

I do have a serious question though. Why is there no patina on the brass grommet?

Albert, can you take a pic were the ends of the sweatband meet? Kind of bend back one of the ends so we can see behind the flap. I am just curious about something. It seems to be missing the classic Erel bow.

Now that I got my kids off the computer long enough to take a good look I have more that a few questions. This one is going to be interesting. I need to see behind the sweatband flaps before I can comment any further. It could be the key here. This cap might dispel my theory but then again it might not.

Nick, the cap is not mine. After the pasteboard discussion reg. Med. visor I called a collector friend and asked him to check his visors. This is how this one entered the game. He came over and we took some pics. I will try to pick it up today on the way from work. So, please be patient everybody. I myself am looking forward to the discussion! But most importantly, get well, and good luck with your surgerey!

Two or three things I can answer for sure right now:

1. Such brass items as grommets etc. will not necessarily develop brass if kept in a "good" domestic environment. The hat shows no wear, so no damp sweaty air had a chance to tarnish the brass. I have posted an early side cap maybe a month ago with "mint" shiny vent grommets...

2. Staying on the topic of the grommet, yes, it surely goes all the way through, I checked that yesterday.

3. Vented cockades: I have seen much more ERELs without the vented cockades than with comming from first sources. In fact at times I have wondered how many got switched to vented ones to give the caps the ultimate EREL look and the seller a chance to make more... So that is not an indicator, really.

Talk to you later,

Al

[Albert]

Once again, I am late for the show. The bright non-patinaed grommet got me--every hat I have ever had had patina on the brass--but the shape is Erel (unlike that earlier 80's superfake).

Once again, we have the issue of the untreated pasteboard--I have never seen it until the Medical Albert posted yesterday, and I am still willing to give that one the benefit of the doubt--but an Erel w/o it? Almost all of us have (or have had) Erels--can anyone else point to a single Erel they had w/o the treated pasteboard??

I'm leaning "Franky"--it just blows my mind how good this one is, and the fact that they used Artillery instead of Propaganda, etc.

Stez, your thoughts???

Better late than never;-) The Medical is 100% original, and I thank you for your trust in it. I wonder what the outcome on the Arty one will be

[NTZ]

Albert, when you looked at it could you tell if the foil was imprinted directly on the lining or on the shield itself? It is hard to tell from the pics. It could have been foiled on the lining and then the pieces that broke loose became stuck to the shield. It is really hard to tell from the pics. Also what looks like aluminum in the grommet hole? I don’t think that is the back of the cockade as to looks too close to the hole.
I am still having problems with the pasteboard. Here is a shot from a “late war Erel” a true late war with pressed paper visor and all. For those who believe in these this would mark the end of production for Erel’s. Note that it still has the treated pasteboard. If they used it their visors as late as 1945 how does this anomaly occur? Not to mention every other maker.

[Gerard/Relic Hunter]

I like this cap. Pehaps I am alone.


Gerard

[NTZ]

Well guy’s surgery went well today. I will be off my feet for a few days so not too many posts. I have to crawl to the computer.

Anyway to the point. If Gerard likes it and I am on the fence then I have to think this just might be one of those bazaar oddities. Unless something else comes up with better picks that is about all I can add. I do think if the lining is not marked and only the shield that changes everything for me. Albert could you tell?

[Kreager]

Well guy’s surgery went well today. I will be off my feet for a few days so not too many posts. I have to crawl to the computer.

Nick, Glad to hear everything went well . I'm sure you'll find a way to get to your computer (I'm sure you got some percocet for the pain, during that crawl to the computer )

[NTZ]

I just crawled up two flights of stairs to check in. I can’t figures out how to use crutches on those things.

I had some time today to look over all my visors real good. It really made that cardboard bother me even more than it did before. I can’t find a thing that would be decisive either way and I am still on the fence. But it does have some positives too. I wish we had more pics to look closer. At this point I can only call is a cautious original. Me personally, it would not be for me. I am too much of the anal retentive type.

[Albert]

Albert, when you looked at it could you tell if the foil was imprinted directly on the lining or on the shield itself? It is hard to tell from the pics. It could have been foiled on the lining and then the pieces that broke loose became stuck to the shield. It is really hard to tell from the pics...

Nick, the foil was imprinted on the lining and a lot of chunks have come loose. Some are floating around between the shield and liner, and some got stuck to the lining.

...Also what looks like aluminum in the grommet hole? I don’t think that is the back of the cockade as to looks too close to the hole...

It is the back of the cockade...

[NTZ]

Nick, the foil was imprinted on the lining and a lot of chunks have come loose. Some are floating around between the shield and liner, and some got stuck to the lining.


It is the back of the cockade...

That makes me fell much better about it.

[Albert]

I like this cap. Pehaps I am alone.

Gerard

Gerard, you are not allone. The more I study it the more I am convinced it is perfectly fine. Here are more photos of the area Nick wanted to see.

Albert

[Albert]

And the fold bent back; no evidence of the leather sweat band having been on a larger size cap before...

[NTZ]

Albert based on all the pics you have shown I could only say that I think Gerard was right, the cap is a good one. I am convinced. I surly don’t think the untreated board was done intentionally but just a production fluke seeing you can look at 500 Erel’s and 499 will have the black treated pasteboard.