Opinions on an ErEl Arty Off Cap

[TONY Q.W.]

...never seen it on Erels, I quess it could happen

[NTZ]

Now it has issues

[NTZ]

I do have a serious question though. Why is there no patina on the brass grommet?

Albert, can you take a pic were the ends of the sweatband meet? Kind of bend back one of the ends so we can see behind the flap. I am just curious about something. It seems to be missing the classic Erel bow.

Now that I got my kids off the computer long enough to take a good look I have more that a few questions. This one is going to be interesting. I need to see behind the sweatband flaps before I can comment any further. It could be the key here. This cap might dispel my theory but then again it might not.

[NTZ]

One more question about the cap. Is the grommet brass all the way through? Is there an exit hole? The cap may indeed be fine but the more I look at the pics the more questions I have.

[derek]

The first question I would be asking is whether the logo is on the sweatshield or the lining. Maybe it's just my monitor.
Derek

[NTZ]

The first question I would be asking is whether the logo is on the sweatshield or the lining. Maybe it's just my monitor.
Derek

Derek you are going to steal my thunder.

I might as well throw out two more things we can talk about. The lining being sewn right up to and possibly into the oilcloth reed and that funky piece of red scrap material used for the peak support.

[TONY Q.W.]

OK, I would also add that the sweatshield is off center and quite far back to the right but my question would be are all those 'questionable' characteristics (untreated band, logo printed on the sweatshield, etc.) make the actual cap a fake? It's an honest question.

[NTZ]

Here is an Erel grommet 60+ yr. old on a visor that is otherwise in relatively mint condition. Lots of patina on the brass. Which brings me to yet another question. Why a Erel with the vent but no vented cockade? The prongs on the vented cockade are different than other cockades and if this piece ever had one I would think there would be signs of it once being there. The more and more I look the more questions I am having.

[NTZ]

OK, I would also add that the sweatshield is off center and quite far back to the right but my question would be are all those 'questionable' characteristics (untreated band, logo printed on the sweatshield, etc.) make the actual cap a fake? It's an honest question.

Tony I don’t know the answer yet, at least my opinion. I am still finding flaws. Also look at the sweatband seam in the rear. It is off center by a mile.Tony if the foil is printed on the shield and not on the lining then I would say IMHO the cap is bad one. There is also something with the grommet that is wrong too. Take a look at the one I posted. Albert needs to get a direct and clear shot down the center of his grommet. If my eyes are not playing tricks (and the have before) on me I have another big problem.

[TONY Q.W.]

Tony I don’t know the answer yet, at least my opinion. I am still finding flaws. Also look at the sweatband seam in the rear. It is off center by a mile.Tony if the foil is printed on the shield and not on the lining then I would say IMHO the cap is bad one. There is also something with the grommet that is wrong too. Take a look at the one I posted. Albert needs to get a direct and clear shot down the center of his grommet. If my eyes are not playing tricks (and the have before) on me I have another big problem.

For sure Nick, lots of questions here.
If the foil is printed on the sweatshield (which I believe it is) that would explain why some other Erels have no markings at all on their linings . I don't think that Albert's is the only Erel out there with such trait.
The sweatband seam in the rear appears off center but I believe it's the sweatshield that is off center otherwise the holes in the front would be off center too.
Looking on my Erels grommets, one has real bad patina, one so and so and the other three look mint . I don't think patina would be as conclusive.

Better I hope that Albert's cap is an original, other wise, we are in trouble .

[NTZ]

For sure Nick, lots of questions here.
If the foil is printed on the sweatshield (which I believe it is) that would explain why some other Erels have no markings at all on their linings . I don't think that Albert's is the only Erel out there with such trait.
The sweatband seam in the rear appears off center but I believe it's the sweatshield that is off center otherwise the holes in the front would be off center too.
Looking on my Erels grommets, one has real bad patina, one so and so and the other three look mint . I don't think patina would be as conclusive.

Better I hope that Albert's cap is an original, other wise, we are in trouble .

Tony it is what it inside of the grommet that is a bother to me. At least what I think I see. As for the foil, as far as I know ALL Erel's were printed on the lining. The ones you think you can't see are there. You just need to hold it up to the light to see the imprint. I have yet to see any Erel with no signs of markings.

[TONY Q.W.]

Tony it is what it inside of the grommet that is a bother to me. At least what I think I see. As for the foil, as far as I know ALL Erel's were printed on the lining. The ones you think you can't see are there. You just need to hold it up to the light to see the imprint. I have yet to see any Erel with no signs of markings.

Hi Nick, for sure all Erel's were printed on the lining no question about that. I also know what you mean with the light imprint, this is fine too. I'm quite sure though that I have seen Erels with out printings in the lining at all, I wish I had kept records of them.

Here is a vented Erel without the vented cockade that looks fine:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1580&highlight

I have a feeling this thread will be a long one, just wait until Stonemint and the other guys join in

[NTZ]

It should be a good thread. I talked to one person off line so far who’s opinion I respect. We will see if he posts a comment. He also had a bad vibe. I also pmed a second person who’s opinion I trust. He will set me straight if I am off base. Unfortunately I am going in for minor surgery in a few hours so I may not be able to continue on this one. It should be an interesting one. The pics I asked for might make or break the cap. Well when I get released from the hospital you know I will be crawling to the computer.

[TONY Q.W.]

It should be a good thread. I talked to one person off line so far who’s opinion I respect. We will see if he posts a comment. He also had a bad vibe. I also pmed a second person who’s opinion I trust. He will set me straight if I am off base. Unfortunately I am going in for minor surgery in a few hours so I may not be able to continue on this one. It should be an interesting one. The pics I asked for might make or break the cap. Well when I get released from the hospital you know I will be crawling to the computer.

Nick, I'm personaly 50/50 with this one let's see what the others have to say.
and hey Nick, make sure you come back one peice . Just kidding, good lack

[Chris_Werner]

Nick--All my best for a speedy recovery!