Originally posted by TONY Q.W.
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Opinions on an ErEl Arty Off Cap
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Once again, I am late for the show. The bright non-patinaed grommet got me--every hat I have ever had had patina on the brass--but the shape is Erel (unlike that earlier 80's superfake).
Once again, we have the issue of the untreated pasteboard--I have never seen it until the Medical Albert posted yesterday, and I am still willing to give that one the benefit of the doubt--but an Erel w/o it? Almost all of us have (or have had) Erels--can anyone else point to a single Erel they had w/o the treated pasteboard??
I'm leaning "Franky"--it just blows my mind how good this one is, and the fact that they used Artillery instead of Propaganda, etc.
Stez, your thoughts???NEC SOLI CEDIT
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Originally posted by NTZ View PostI do have a serious question though. Why is there no patina on the brass grommet?
Albert, can you take a pic were the ends of the sweatband meet? Kind of bend back one of the ends so we can see behind the flap. I am just curious about something. It seems to be missing the classic Erel bow.
Now that I got my kids off the computer long enough to take a good look I have more that a few questions. This one is going to be interesting. I need to see behind the sweatband flaps before I can comment any further. It could be the key here. This cap might dispel my theory but then again it might not.
Two or three things I can answer for sure right now:
1. Such brass items as grommets etc. will not necessarily develop brass if kept in a "good" domestic environment. The hat shows no wear, so no damp sweaty air had a chance to tarnish the brass. I have posted an early side cap maybe a month ago with "mint" shiny vent grommets...
2. Staying on the topic of the grommet, yes, it surely goes all the way through, I checked that yesterday.
3. Vented cockades: I have seen much more ERELs without the vented cockades than with comming from first sources. In fact at times I have wondered how many got switched to vented ones to give the caps the ultimate EREL look and the seller a chance to make more... So that is not an indicator, really.
Talk to you later,
Al
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Originally posted by stonemint View PostOnce again, I am late for the show. The bright non-patinaed grommet got me--every hat I have ever had had patina on the brass--but the shape is Erel (unlike that earlier 80's superfake).
Once again, we have the issue of the untreated pasteboard--I have never seen it until the Medical Albert posted yesterday, and I am still willing to give that one the benefit of the doubt--but an Erel w/o it? Almost all of us have (or have had) Erels--can anyone else point to a single Erel they had w/o the treated pasteboard??
I'm leaning "Franky"--it just blows my mind how good this one is, and the fact that they used Artillery instead of Propaganda, etc.
Stez, your thoughts???
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Albert, when you looked at it could you tell if the foil was imprinted directly on the lining or on the shield itself? It is hard to tell from the pics. It could have been foiled on the lining and then the pieces that broke loose became stuck to the shield. It is really hard to tell from the pics. Also what looks like aluminum in the grommet hole? I don’t think that is the back of the cockade as to looks too close to the hole.
I am still having problems with the pasteboard. Here is a shot from a “late war Erel” a true late war with pressed paper visor and all. For those who believe in these this would mark the end of production for Erel’s. Note that it still has the treated pasteboard. If they used it their visors as late as 1945 how does this anomaly occur? Not to mention every other maker.Attached FilesLast edited by NTZ; 04-02-2007, 03:02 AM.
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Well guy’s surgery went well today. I will be off my feet for a few days so not too many posts. I have to crawl to the computer.
Anyway to the point. If Gerard likes it and I am on the fence then I have to think this just might be one of those bazaar oddities. Unless something else comes up with better picks that is about all I can add. I do think if the lining is not marked and only the shield that changes everything for me. Albert could you tell?
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Originally posted by NTZ View PostWell guy’s surgery went well today. I will be off my feet for a few days so not too many posts. I have to crawl to the computer.
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I just crawled up two flights of stairs to check in. I can’t figures out how to use crutches on those things.
I had some time today to look over all my visors real good. It really made that cardboard bother me even more than it did before. I can’t find a thing that would be decisive either way and I am still on the fence. But it does have some positives too. I wish we had more pics to look closer. At this point I can only call is a cautious original. Me personally, it would not be for me. I am too much of the anal retentive type.
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Originally posted by NTZ View PostAlbert, when you looked at it could you tell if the foil was imprinted directly on the lining or on the shield itself? It is hard to tell from the pics. It could have been foiled on the lining and then the pieces that broke loose became stuck to the shield. It is really hard to tell from the pics...
Originally posted by NTZ View Post...Also what looks like aluminum in the grommet hole? I don’t think that is the back of the cockade as to looks too close to the hole...
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Originally posted by Gerard/Relic Hunter View PostI like this cap. Pehaps I am alone.
Gerard
Gerard, you are not allone. The more I study it the more I am convinced it is perfectly fine. Here are more photos of the area Nick wanted to see.
AlbertAttached Files
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Albert based on all the pics you have shown I could only say that I think Gerard was right, the cap is a good one. I am convinced. I surly don’t think the untreated board was done intentionally but just a production fluke seeing you can look at 500 Erel’s and 499 will have the black treated pasteboard.
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