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    To NTZ, and Others.

    I spent a lot of time and effort on honing my knowledge of visors and have for the last 16 or 17 years. I take the time to study every stitch of every visor that crosses my hands. I take the time to focus on the history and evolution of a few period makers. In one extreme case I even dismantled a visor that was beyond redemption to see how that maker constructed his caps. I do research on the patents of those makers. I try and use dated visors and patents to construct a timeline for those makers. My work ethic in this hobby I will put up against anyone’s. To me every detail of every visor is important. What type of lining did they use, what type of sweatband, how did they attach their linings and sweatbands, what type of peak stiffener did they use. How many of you can say the same? Maybe one or two?

    Because of this detailed study I can see red flags in visors that others do not. “Hey that is the wrong type of sweatband” or “that maker never used that type of stitching”. Look at the Erel SS thread for example. I spent a whole day building up a bulletproof case on a visor that was obvious to me (and a few others). When I say something does not look right I go into full detail why. I post pics pointing out the flaws, I post pics for comparison, and I post detailed info regarding the maker. Unlike others on the forum who just spout off they don’t like something and never say why I go to the extreme to post legitimate reasons why something does not look right to me.

    Am I right all the time? Hell no, no one is. Do I back up my comments with all the info I have available? You bet you’re a$$.

    It seams on a daily basis I am having to defend myself. I have no problem with members who challenge something I post by saying “why”. I have no problem with members with opposing opinions. Sometimes those threads prove to be the most informative. Sometimes those threads get me to rethink my position on things. I am not bull headed, I have changed my mind on a lot of views I have had over the years because better info has surfaced or someone make a valid point.

    What I do have a problem with are members who cast insults like the one thrown at me tonight on a thread. I made a comment regarding color piped visors and when they were made. The comment was I did not know what I was talking about and I must not have a good reference of books. Excuse me? The issue of whether or not color piped visors were produced post 1940 has be debated ever since collecting started. It is been debated to no end on the forums with no clear answer. When I asked this member what book did I miss that confirmed they were made post 1940 his story changed. Now it was a vet told him he bought one in 1943. Well if this is true how does that make me a fool spewing non-truths? How does this conclusively prove anything? Since this member does not contribute much in visor discussions I doubt he is too knowledgeable in the subject. For that mater he probably has a bone to pick with me because I pointed out a visor he owns is bad. Since he took a jab at me yesterday for no reason I am sure this is the case.

    If you disagree with something I say feel free to let me know. But for god sakes back it up with fact, your personal experiences what you seen 40 or 50 years ago before fakes, something. Don’t just take personal jabs because you don’t like me (like I care).

    I put a lot of time and effort into helping other collectors. Sharing info with other collectors. I get about 6 emails a day from people asking for my opinions on visors. (boy someone must think I know something ) and I take the time to answer every single one. I couldn’t tell you how many times I stopped someone from buying a known fake or messed with visor and this is the thanks I get.

    I think I am going to take a little vacation from the forum. Start focusing on my own collection and myself. I am sure some won’t miss me. Now they can post their doggy visors and get a “that a boy”. Thank you for taking the time to listen to my rant.

    Nick

    #2
    Nick, the messenger is always shot....the owners of fakes, belived to be genuine, the cliques, buddies and on and on are first to shout very loudly.

    I'm tired of posting retorts to the latest test...."prove is isn't real, pre '45 or period...." but one must take a stand. Look what happened in the Crosses section....it took 4 years but the truth prevailed!

    Frankly, look what occured in the SS visor area. Old guard, degrees and wold history coupled with a language skill didn't confirm a fraud, however, truth and logic did. They all fall out eventually because their agenda doesn't hold water BUT the truth always will!

    The idea is to not get frustrated, stay on course...and no matter what stick to it!

    I speak from experience
    Regards,
    Dave

    Comment


      #3
      Nick
      I sincerely hope that you rethink your position.You are one of the great assets of this site.I have been collecting for almost 40 years and still benefit from your advice.
      Please don't let the rantings of a fool disrupt the wonderful dialogue that we have assembled here.
      Paul

      Comment


        #4
        Nick:
        Stay the course. The folks with open minds and a desire to learn value your opinions and experience.
        I have maintained all along that it is not the disagreements that trouble me; it is the lack of civility among some who do not know how to argue logically or build a case that spoil it for the rest of us.
        I certainly hope that you reconsider, and there are some folks that owe you, and others, an apology.
        Best wishes,
        Chris Werner
        "Activity! Activity! Speed! I greet you."
        -Napoleon to Massena, advancing on Landshut, April 18, 1809

        Comment


          #5
          Hey Nick,
          I for one appreciate your input -- perhaps I should be more vocal with my support mroe often. As Dave stated -- stay the course and don't get discouraged.
          Take care and stick around, the forum needs its serious contributors.
          -Lee

          Comment


            #6
            No color piping after 1940?

            Please don't go & please tell us what you mean by "no color piping after 1940"?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by BrianK View Post
              Please don't go & please tell us what you mean by "no color piping after 1940"?
              Here you go Brian.
              http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=212298

              Nick, Please don't leave us. There are many more of us here that respect your knowledge then those who think they know it all because they had a "friend who", or had "read a book once" and now they think they know "everything attitude". These will always be the ones who spend a bunch of money on fakes and come here, trying to show what they have and leave with their pride smashed because they have been enlightened to what they really have. It is a very small few who act like this but it is getting more prevelant now days. I could go on forever about these people but I won't.

              The bottom line is, we need you here standing guard and helping the newer collector learn the tricks before they learn the hard way. Your knowledge is unmeasurable and is always greatly appreciated. You are one of the handfull of members on this forum, who I personally feel I can PM to get a good honest answer from. So please for all of us, please stay around and keep up the good fight, we have your back buddy

              Comment


                #8
                Nick, there are few guys around that knows what they are talking about, you happened to be one of them. To get into debates with people that with a serious knowlegdge shortfall and over inflated egos can be most frustrating but they can be easily ignored. In the end you determine who you interact with and respond to and who you ignore. I think that is a essential element off being active on the forum.

                Bryon Singer chooses to respond with Ï can entertain a doubt" . To me that is good enough, because it raises a red flag, which cause me to seriously reconsider and relook that item, because I trust the knowledge of the man. The same apply to your postings. My advice to you, be slective with regard to who you allow to irritate you. Jacques

                Comment


                  #9
                  To NTZ, and Others.

                  NTZ, Nick, As I have been collecting Third Reich visors for a little over three years, I find your posts enlightening. I have 4 books on visors, Wilkins among them, they showed me much about trademarks, labels, makers. As a result, I think I have been burned by only 1 visor, which was off the estand. I have learned that I do have some with restiched visors, replaced eagles, sweatbands. I learned these from you, Stonemint, Dave Kane, Donald A. Ben K and even Wolften? Micky? and a few others a I find your explanations very insightful, and very well helpful in the way you explain things. I for one would hate to see you go. I am a person that is thankful for yours, and the others knowledge. Please keep up your good work here. If I left out anyone else who as helped me, Thank You also. I would like to see you remain a very valuable asset to this forum. Pete

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I, of course, echo everyone on this threads sentiments with regards to Nicks "staying the course"--unfortunately, I cannot access the forum at work, and by the time I get home, the "dust-ups" have already occured (I am on west-coast time, so you EST guys are 3 hours ahead of me) and basically my 2 cents are too late.

                    I posted my rant(s) on my "Minty's Request" regarding my thoughts on these issues Nick brings up (I'll bring it back to the top after posting this).
                    I don't have a problem with someone taking issue with me, or anyone else on the forum, as long as that person has "street cred" here--ie, they regularly contribute and post on the forum, and aren't some one-time "bomb-thrower" lurker who comes out from under his/her rock, and then goes running away, never to be seen again.

                    The fact is that this forum has cast a lot of light on the darkness, especially due to Nick--and I know this is hitting a lot of less than scrupulous dealers/collectors in the pocketbook, and hitting them hard.
                    What has appeared on these threads over the past 1,000+ posts (in 4 months time) is worth more than all the reference books combined--and a lot of people don't like it, and I know we are having a world-wide effect--note the very blurry pics of the interiors of caps being posted on ebay; people mimicing our lingo, etc. While these "rock-bottom lurkers" doth protest too much, invariably we see (or hear) of these hats being quickly sold--and I know it will happen with that LW Kleiderkasse "SS" Erel. My attitude towards them is TS. Are any of us experts? No. Do we hold ourselves out as such? No. But we are willing to help anyone who shares our passion for the real deal, and our common hatred for the fake--AND WHO CONTRIBUTES. As Nick points out, we specialize in only headgear--no medals, tunics, daggers, etc. We privately note the characteristics of each maker. I look at each and every hat I can lay my hands on--KaiserReich, Weimar, TR, BRD, DDR--I also have every possible reference book on headgear and uniforms made. I try to get primary source material--this is what distinguishes us as a "new breed" of collector--rank specialization. While there are lurkers who have collected in the 40's 50s and 60s, I guarantee that they didn't specialize. I love to read about the lurkers who were in Germany during those years--yeah, I'm sure they combed every back alley in Dusseldorf, and hit every antique shop looking for deals--but I bet NOT ONE of them paid a visit to Pekuro, Clemens Wagner, Schellenberg, etc during that time to look at their primary source material and records--thats what separates the casual hobbyist from the scholar.

                    So, once again, Nick, keep posting your opinions, as I ask everyone else to do--and you lurkers, POST or SHUT-UP.
                    NEC SOLI CEDIT

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Nick-
                      I Have Been Where You Are. Even In A Thread Of Support It Is Funny How Some People Cannot Get Over Their Defeats And Need To Enter In To This Thread Nothing That Deals With Your Present Situation. I Have Stayed Here As I Received Words Of Support From Seba That Have Never Materialized. I Am Still Listed As A Moderator On A Forum In Which I Have Only Basic Knowledge. I Only Continue In The Hope That Some Of What I Have Learned And The Many Mistakes I Have Made Will Help New Collectors Who Wish To Be Serious About This Hobby. Taking A Few Weeks Off May Be The Best Thing For You At This Time To Bring All In To Perspective. The FoolS And Imbicles Who Have No Knowledge, No Collection And Only A Big Mouth From An Anonymous Position Contribute Nothing Positive To This Forum.
                      You, In Turn, Try To Help. Frustrating!! Maybe The Serious People Need Their Own Place To Study Without Interference From The World's Morons And A Forum Where Only Profit Is The Motivator. Let Me Know Whatever Your Option Is. I Have Been Where You Are At More Than Once. You Cannot Make A Stupid Idiot Smart. The Genetics Are Against Them.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Nick,

                        Don't leave.
                        I'm one of those who had sent you PM*s with questions regarding caps.
                        You've helped me more than once.
                        I bought my first cap after you recommended this forum with its informative threads and your recommendations of books.
                        You did also help me by looking on the photos of the cap, giving your opinion.

                        I recently posted it with restored insignia and everybody did their thumbs up.
                        When I bought it I was also interested in another cap (an SS arty cap) from a well known seller. Your help and your advice helped me to save alot of cash.

                        The other day I PMed you about another expensive cap. I liked it, but you pointed at some things that made me change my mind. Thank you Nick.

                        Yesterday you helped me once again, this time by confirming my thoughts of a cap. If the seller and I can agree of a payment plan, this cap will soon be posted in this forum. In my eyes it's a little gem.

                        What I'm trying to say is, you know this stuff, you do always back your opinions, we are many who listen to what you say and learn from it.
                        H*ll, you've saved me thousands of dollars already, just by share your knowledge in the threads and in PM's. For this I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

                        (Don't let this happen to us: http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/in...33dc47c8dbdbe8 )

                        Kind
                        Last edited by waffen $$; 03-30-2007, 03:50 AM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          My advice to you is just let it blow past you.You know what you know and thats all thats important.I went through the same BS with tunics.Members have quit forums because of lil ol me..now they lurk and have resurfaced.Peeking out of the abyss keep up the good work..even when you make an occaisional mistake being dedicated makes you a great asset.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Nick …This is an example where we clearly see the 2 types of Collectors …on one hand we have people like you and many of us, who do take the hobby seriously and are in it for the long haul.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>
                            On the other side of the fence we have the Collectors who (as Stonemint said) could be called our “casual hobbyist’s” and would be more prone to being a one-time "bomb-thrower" .<o></o>
                            Is it jealousy, bitterness or just plain stupidity that drives them? I don’t know and don’t care<o></o>
                            One thing for sure though ..We see these casual collectors come and go all the time ..so don’t let them bother you. They usually get bored with this Hobby and fade away.<o></o>
                            <o></o>
                            You however have proven time and time again what type of Collector and person you are .<o></o>
                            You have a lot to be proud of
                            <o> </o>
                            <o></o>
                            <o></o>

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by NTZ View Post
                              I spent a lot of time and effort on honing my knowledge of visors and have for the last 16 or 17 years. I take the time to study every stitch of every visor that crosses my hands. I take the time to focus on the history and evolution of a few period makers. In one extreme case I even dismantled a visor that was beyond redemption to see how that maker constructed his caps. I do research on the patents of those makers. I try and use dated visors and patents to construct a timeline for those makers. My work ethic in this hobby I will put up against anyone’s. To me every detail of every visor is important. What type of lining did they use, what type of sweatband, how did they attach their linings and sweatbands, what type of peak stiffener did they use. How many of you can say the same? Maybe one or two?

                              Because of this detailed study I can see red flags in visors that others do not. “Hey that is the wrong type of sweatband” or “that maker never used that type of stitching”. Look at the Erel SS thread for example. I spent a whole day building up a bulletproof case on a visor that was obvious to me (and a few others). When I say something does not look right I go into full detail why. I post pics pointing out the flaws, I post pics for comparison, and I post detailed info regarding the maker. Unlike others on the forum who just spout off they don’t like something and never say why I go to the extreme to post legitimate reasons why something does not look right to me.

                              Am I right all the time? Hell no, no one is. Do I back up my comments with all the info I have available? You bet you’re a$$.

                              It seams on a daily basis I am having to defend myself. I have no problem with members who challenge something I post by saying “why”. I have no problem with members with opposing opinions. Sometimes those threads prove to be the most informative. Sometimes those threads get me to rethink my position on things. I am not bull headed, I have changed my mind on a lot of views I have had over the years because better info has surfaced or someone make a valid point.

                              What I do have a problem with are members who cast insults like the one thrown at me tonight on a thread. I made a comment regarding color piped visors and when they were made. The comment was I did not know what I was talking about and I must not have a good reference of books. Excuse me? The issue of whether or not color piped visors were produced post 1940 has be debated ever since collecting started. It is been debated to no end on the forums with no clear answer. When I asked this member what book did I miss that confirmed they were made post 1940 his story changed. Now it was a vet told him he bought one in 1943. Well if this is true how does that make me a fool spewing non-truths? How does this conclusively prove anything? Since this member does not contribute much in visor discussions I doubt he is too knowledgeable in the subject. For that mater he probably has a bone to pick with me because I pointed out a visor he owns is bad. Since he took a jab at me yesterday for no reason I am sure this is the case.

                              If you disagree with something I say feel free to let me know. But for god sakes back it up with fact, your personal experiences what you seen 40 or 50 years ago before fakes, something. Don’t just take personal jabs because you don’t like me (like I care).

                              I put a lot of time and effort into helping other collectors. Sharing info with other collectors. I get about 6 emails a day from people asking for my opinions on visors. (boy someone must think I know something ) and I take the time to answer every single one. I couldn’t tell you how many times I stopped someone from buying a known fake or messed with visor and this is the thanks I get.

                              I think I am going to take a little vacation from the forum. Start focusing on my own collection and myself. I am sure some won’t miss me. Now they can post their doggy visors and get a “that a boy”. Thank you for taking the time to listen to my rant.

                              Nick
                              Nick,

                              Stay the course. I applaud your efforts to help educate us. I'm also an in the weeds collector and appreciate detailed comparisons and explanations. While I understand and respect the reasons why some advanced collectors only provide simple answers, it does little to satisfy my curiosity.

                              Don't worry about the 1% of the members who can't conduct themselves as an adult and have to resort to insults and emotional rants. They're definately a minority on the forum and certainly not worth losing sleep over. I for one appreciate your participation.

                              Keep on trucking. WR Jim

                              Comment

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