SS EM/NCO. Arty. Visor ?

[Karl S.]

All opinions appreciated on this one. Any chance that it's good?..thanks

[Karl S.]

2

[Karl S.]

3

[Karl S.]

4

[Sayle F]

ss cap

The wool looks kind of course and the insignia are reproductions. That is all I can tell from these pictures.

[Sayle F]

ss cap

Is it being offered to you for sale? If so how much? That might determine authenticity also if it is from a militaria dealer. A cap like this would sell for around $7000 to $10,000

[NTZ]

Well owning a handful of Schellenberg’s and having twice that pass through my hands I know a little about these babies’s. The shield and lining do look like a later war Schellenberg. The sweatband does not. That would be the first thing that would want me to look further. There are two traits that all Schellenberg’s have (early or late). One is in the construction, i.e. peak construction and the other I will not disclose publicly but may PM you. Can you give us the good old "under the hood shot"?

[Karl S.]

Thanks Guys,
It's on a dealers site so these are the only images I have.
Asking price is $2,345.

[Kreager]

Thanks Guys,
It's on a dealers site so these are the only images I have.
Asking price is $2,345.

Now that price will spark a huge RED FLAG!!! (or red face)

[NTZ]

Two more things I can add without seeing additional pics. The shape of the peak along with the point is not the look a Schellenberg has. The bell shape of the cap band is not normally a Schellenberg trait either. One more thing. The rough wool I have only seen Schellenberg using on later visors. This cap would date 1940, I would expect doeskin EM or not.

[NTZ]

Boy am I an idiot. The biggest red flag is right under my nose. Based on dated Schellenberg’s he did not start using this logo until about 1943. If the cap was made in 1940 it would have the diamond with siver print.

[Sayle F]

ss visor

Why would the visor have to be made in 1940? I think that Schellenberg probably had a top of the line cap and a cheapo cap and they were made out of different materials. ie pressed paper visor and sweatband in the less exspensive cap and vulkanfiber and leather on the better quality cap, and maybe a different logo in each. Just a theory I have But I know pressed paper and poor quality materials does not automatically translate to "Late War" made. Now I am not saying that the cap posted is original, but that Schellenberg logo and the materials used could have been in an earlier cap made in 1940 IMO.

[besslein]

NTZ I wish you better book abaut ss hats,I have find in one book that color waffenfarbe was on ss visors for very short time in 1940 and later Himmler stop this and order to wear on visor hats only white color,but I have see caps made after 1943
and the are with colorwaffenfarbe,so dear NTZ,please stop with your option abaut 1940! what abaut KZ visors etz
p.s
soory for my english but I hope you understand what I mean

[NTZ]

Well since regulation stated that they went back to white for the duration of the war and there is no conclusive proof that they were made post 1940 I can only use that assumption. Do you have definitive proof they were made post 1940? I do not think the KZ was dated if my memory is correct. Some claim they were made post 1940, which might be correct but until there is definitive proof it will always be a red flag for me. By the way what book states they were made post 1940? They were surely worn post 1940 but the question is were they still being made? Then if they were wouldn’t you think they would be ordered by officers that had the latitude to bend regulations? Do you think a lower ranker would have this ability?

[NTZ]

Sayle, I am going off dated Schellenberg’s (mostly Luft) that I have handled. Not only did Schellenberg progress with changes in logo and materials but if you look at early or prewar Schellenberg’s (again going by dated ones) you will see that they had a different shape to the crown. I am fairly certain that the logo you see with a pressed paper visor and band was not made in 1940. Take a look at any other large maker. They made changes throughout the war. Good examples are Erel and Pekuro. The best way to get a vibe as when they used what is by studying pics of Luft visors since a lot of them had dated sweatbands. My guesses might not be in stone but they are educated and calculated. I am just not throwing out the late war thing.