Panzer cap how accurate is burn test?

[kenny andrew]

Hi Guys ,

I've been looking through the threads regarding the burn test and was wondering what present thoughts are about the burn test? is it accurate?
I have been offered this Panzer cap which looks OK to me but when I did the burn test on it ,it failed.

As far as I can make out the burn test means all wartime items should be made from either cotton or rayon, both burn but Rayon balls then ashes.

I took a small sample of the thread from this cap and the thread appeared to melt then slightly ball but did not ash, it did slightly crumble but only slightly, it also gave out a synthetic smell when burned.

Do you think the cap looks OK? and am I interpreting the burn test correctly?

Cheers Kenny.

[kenny andrew]

insignia

[kenny andrew]

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[kenny andrew]

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[kenny andrew]

final pic maker

[TONY Q.W.]

Hello Kenny,

after the ball has formed, you should squeez it between the fingers and it should turn into ashes. If it persists then its synthetic. A synthetic ball is extrimely resistant.

My opinion for your cap is, I'm afraid, not positive by looking the characteristics of it but I hope that I'm wrong.

[kenny andrew]

Hi Tony, it certainly does not ash and is persistent.I do think it is synthetic but is this definetly a bad thing?

[TONY Q.W.]

Hi Tony, it certainly does not ash and is persistent.I do think it is synthetic but is this definetly a bad thing?

In my book and for this particular case its definetly not a good sign.

[phild]

Tony is right.

Many if not most all repros as of the last 10 to 20 years are made using cotton thread....so just being sewn with natural fibers does not equal pre 45.

I think that your cap is recent manufactue regardless of what the thread is/

Rayon is a synthetic fiber, but it will not burn into a hard ball like dacron/polyester. Nylon (Called Perlon in Germany) was invented and in use by the late 30s. It's use in 3rd Reich garmets was very very limited if ever as a basic sewing thread. Nylon will melt into a hard plastic like shiney end when burned...

Somtimes blended or wrapped thread can be harder to detect with a burn test or with the eye...you have to really check when burning a cotton wrapped polylester thread.

In my opinion the burn test being correct (like a UV check) will never prove an item as period, only offer another data point and may prove it to be post war.

[m.alex]

Sorry, but I have entertain doubts in connection with insignias, too!!!
Regards,
Alex

[kenny andrew]

Thanks guys

I would say the thread is perlon and as Phil says synthetics were in use before the war.I'm not trying to convince myself that this cap is original because I have not actaully bought it yet.But I would really like to find out if the Germans used perlon thread during war time.I find it hard to believe they didn't as they did have access to synthetic materials.

Another question I ask is why make the cap so accurate then use nylon thread? To me the cap does look accurate according to books and even other panzer caps posted on the forum.Alex can you say what you don't like about the insignia? again I have seen similar insignia on the forum and also what appears to me to be the exact insignia in Wades book Army Panzer Uniforms.

Either the cap is wrong or the burn test theory is wrong ,both options equally worrying in my opinion.

Can anybody find any faults with the cap or maybe have encountered these caps for sale as replicas anywhere?