My panzer M43 cap for opinions

[richthofen_117]

Hi Gents,

I have this WH Panzer M43 cap for years, its exterior is mid war black wool and interior is made of grey artifical silk, side loops are of the same material. Trapezoid insignia looks to be machine stitching. Only one black ink stamp "57" on the lining as you can see. The cap was well worn, there's some dark sweat stain in the lining and the exterior shows a certain degree of wear. Please give your opinions, thanks!

Best regards,
Yun

[richthofen_117]

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[richthofen_117]

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[richthofen_117]

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[richthofen_117]

Oh, I should let you all know that the cap has been discussed in 2014, the controversy focus was whether this cap was a dyed black one due to some odd stains on the lining. http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=777279

I've been thinking about it for years, finally made my decision to verify this issue. This cap was brought to laundry last week. I was warned by staff that if the cap was a fieldgrey one which dyed to black later, it would return to original color after dealing with. Especially old dyestuff, it could be easily removed. I decided to gamble, luckily I won. This cap was brought back from laundry yesterday and I was told its original color of exterior was black with no doubt, most of the stains on the lining had been washed off.

[Daniel.S]

Would you laundry a cap you felt was 100% orginal?

[richthofen_117]

Would you laundry a cap you felt was 100% orginal?

Frankly, I will keep all my collection untouched no matter they're original or not, and I've never tried to restore a uniform or headgear, even have my binoculars serviced. Regarding this cap, I didn't mean to take such a risk on it, but the issue of whether it was a dyed one has been bothering me for years, eventually I couldn't help trying solve the puzzle, and have prepared for the worst. I just thought, if the cap is really a dyed one, well, it would be a good lesson for me to buy.

[Lenny W]

Frankly, I will keep all my collection untouched no matter they're original or not, and I've never tried to restore a uniform or headgear, even have my binoculars serviced. Regarding this cap, I didn't mean to take such a risk on it, but the issue of whether it was a dyed one has been bothering me for years, eventually I couldn't help trying solve the puzzle, and have prepared for the worst. I just thought, if the cap is really a dyed one, well, it would be a good lesson for me to buy.

Lesson learned now ? It looks really bad now

[richthofen_117]

Lesson learned now ? It looks really bad now

So there're lots of issues with it?

[alone01]

Lesson learned now ? It looks really bad now

Why really bad? Just because he had it dry-cleaned? or the cap itself a really bad one? I would also like to learn more about these Pz M43 caps.

[sfk20]

I think Lenny means the dry cleaning has made your hat look bad, not necessarily fake but maybe a little ugly. But hopefully that's just the photos, the hat looks better in the pics from your original post.

Anyway I don't think I've seen a single Panzer M-43 that everyone has agreed about on the WAF. I'm sure it's happened, but rarely. Personally I feel like a lot of authentic ones have been cast down because when people aren't absolutely certain they cry fake. Authenticating these is a minefield.

[alone01]

Although my knowledge about Pz M43 is very limited, personally I don't think the cap is fake either.
Richthofen, if I were you, I wouldn't have a M43 cap dry cleaned just because someone said on internet it was dyed! In any case, making such an attempt in identifying WW2 cloth headgear is stupid and dangerous. I feel sympathy for you.

[Daniel.S]

Apersonally I don't think the cap is fake either.

Why do you think its orginal?

[alone01]

Why do you think its orginal?

In my eyes the wool, materials, construction, stitching, even the thin gauze between the lining and cap body are correct. Trapezoid insignia is also original & period to the cap. The only red flag to me is "size only" stamp as Glenn pointed out in 2014's thread, but you cannot deny not all the original Pz M43 caps have those "textbook" RBNr.

Let me know why you don't think it's original?

[richthofen_117]

I think Lenny means the dry cleaning has made your hat look bad, not necessarily fake but maybe a little ugly. But hopefully that's just the photos, the hat looks better in the pics from your original post.

Anyway I don't think I've seen a single Panzer M-43 that everyone has agreed about on the WAF. I'm sure it's happened, but rarely. Personally I feel like a lot of authentic ones have been cast down because when people aren't absolutely certain they cry fake. Authenticating these is a minefield.

Due to the 35mm-focus wide-angle lens, the cap looks a bit different in photos, it looks better by hand inspecting. I just want to know why someone is so convinced that the cap is not good?