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**DonC** · 05-27-2016, 12:01 PM

I don't collect SS, period - not buckles, not helmets, nothing. I do think it is a good thing for the hobby when ANY shenanigans are pointed out - JP seems to be a collector of buckles, so I think it is perfectly logical for him to call out a fraud - it only helps the hobby.

Don

**J. Wraith** · 05-27-2016, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by DonC View Post

I don't collect SS, period - not buckles, not helmets, nothing. I do think it is a good thing for the hobby when ANY shenanigans are pointed out - JP seems to be a collector of buckles, so I think it is perfectly logical for him to call out a fraud - it only helps the hobby.

Don

I agree.

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 05-27-2016, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by J. Wraith View Post

Jean,

Do you really write C.O.A's for dealers as an expert on buckles as Royster is saying?. And for Gottlieb?. Is this a service you charge for and do you trade in buckles?. I have no love for Royster but you certificate guys who also deal in items they certify are a much larger problem lately than some collector who got humped. I am fairly certain that these buckles utilized in this article were acquired through Royster so it should be no surprise where he is at on them.

I am a little tired of guys and certificates, certainly those that sell the same material they authenticate because it is a conflict of interest. If that is what you do then you have no business crowing at all because these pieces of paper with a fee attached are worth very little and serve to allow guys like Royster to operate in the first place, just off the dead bodies that used to write certificates and screwed people for the last 50 years.

Yes, it comes with my C.O.A or you can pay an extra 10.00 and get a C.O.A with your order... You know that there is a book full of bad CH helmets with C.O.A's out there, you know what their worth?. You know the guy that wrote them was untouchable for decades and literally controlled the market as his publications got fatter with Champagne decals, you would think that should have been a clue. He is not untouchable now, as a matter of fact most everyone I speak to has flipped and make him out to be a crook. Not just because of CH helmets but FJ, camo, and other deals. As one who does not collect buckles and who is aware of what go's on in just about every back yard regardless of what I collect, should I trust you?.

So, are you writing certificates for a fee?. I would certainly take your word over Royster not even knowing you and blindly on a single buckle, but if your a certificate peddler you are in conflict and part of the problem.

I indeed wrote a CoA in 2004 when I sold an original SS Brocade from my collection to another collector (matter of fact I believe it was a member of this forum). When are not a dealer and you sell something somehow expensive to another collector with money back guarantee for a full year it is rather convenient. You should had note all that yourself since here is the picture you are referring to. BTW you should note it is an original SS belt and buckle not returned since 2004 by the original buyer since GG bought it for sale....

What Roster is saying is something a bit different, isn't it? But his saying are based on this picture. So I let you decide who says what....

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**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 05-27-2016, 12:21 PM

,,, which is

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**J. Wraith** · 05-27-2016, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by Jean Pierre Redeuilh View Post

You are absolutely right. Even now I don't even know what you are referring to. Reason is exactly what you are saying later: no interest in any field of collecting other than SS buckles.

It is NOT his creation. The V chest fakes are available and around since roughly 20 years. Kind of any buckle collector already know them. If he did create a convincing variant, it would had been smarter but IMO he is not that smart after all.

Even if I do no longer collect, indeed you are perfectly correct. I have enough knowledge in this particular subject to fight this article non sense or the gogo Royster. even if I did not fight any other for another subject.

Indeed I speak when I have something to comment, stay silent when I don't. If tomorrow the Thayer/Royster connection writes an article on real or fake helmets or badges I will not comment (I will not read the article neither by the way).

I cannot change the market and I know it. Do not worry, I went to many Military Shows and was always wondering how some stands could be accepted as "respectable dealers". But if I can't change dealers at least I can educate some clever people from buying their goods when they are not original. Or at least I try.

So, we should just forget and say: I already saw that happening? That guy is not worst than the other? Of course he already happened. Of course there is worst people in the world making even worst damages than hurting collector's wallets! But is it a reason to stay sit and doing nothing when we can stop it from the beginning before it grows??

Guaranteed I am not worried by [B][U]my[B][U] buckles. I am worried about what others will buy.

This is exactly what I am doing: Dealing actively with them since 2001. Never stopped as for example that one made in ... 2009!

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=331817

Jean,

Alright, not worth arguing over and not my intention to rough you up as much as it was to draw your attention to the fact that this is not new.

The only issue I have is this " It is NOT his creation. The V chest fakes are available and around since roughly 20 years. Kind of any buckle collector already know them. If he did create a convincing variant, it would had been smarter but IMO he is not that smart after all".

When I say create, I meant that the Kelly Hicks debacle was created by identifying a helmet as a variant and pushing it as an original through publication. He created it off his name, a name that he signs on certificates. If you sign certificates you need character, if no character then the certificate has no value. Kelly Hicks has been doing a Thayer and has not made a single refund. So the great Kelly Hicks has no character and dozens of collectors are out hundreds of thousands of dollars. And its the same thing. He can put his uniform on and surround himself with an Oak leaf frame and SS Runes and publish it ( Weird ) with his Haaaveerd degree on how to order food in Vietnam, but his name is mud.

So, I am sure your a good guy but every time you write a cert you sign your name and sell a share of yourself. So I would be careful with that. As far as these buckles and the two persons involved. Frank Thayer will never be able to sell these as original and the market will recognize them. Bender should print some type of retraction letter or a statement and if he does not, I have purchased my last Bender publication ever.

Its always worth the fight and that is fine and dandy, just do not give your adversaries ammunition, is it worth 50.00 or whatever to sell a cert to Gottleib?... Hell no!.

Have a nice weekend and dont freak out too much as these guys are going nowhere.

Originally posted by Jean Pierre Redeuilh View Post

I indeed wrote a CoA in 2004 when I sold an original SS Brocade from my collection to another collector (matter of fact I believe it was a member of this forum). When are not a dealer and you sell something somehow expensive to another collector with money back guarantee for a full year it is rather convenient. You should had note all that yourself since here is the picture you are referring to. BTW you should note it is an original SS belt and buckle not returned since 2004 by the original buyer since GG bought it for sale....

What Roster is saying is something a bit different, isn't it? But his saying are based on this picture. So I let you decide who says what....

I understand. I am the guy who walks the show halls looking at who is sitting behind who's tables, I look to see who is sitting with who at breakfast and at dinner. Association is very important, believe me when I tell you it can be very expensive. I would just use care, and that rule would apply to anyone where character comes into play. Everyone knows what Royster is, so lets just clear the air here on his finger pointing and get that out of the way in case he decides to make a federal case out of this.

**Joda** · 05-27-2016, 01:34 PM

..Sorry for taking a little space in your debate..but..I see in Royster's article shown by Jean Pierre that he (Royster) knows RODO Luftwaffe buckles.
According to what I know, RODO didn't produce buckles for Luftwaffe...am I wrong?

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 05-27-2016, 01:56 PM

I wrote less than 10 CoA in all my life All before 2005 and all for direct purchases between myself and another collector, wrote to give peace of mind by securing a possible one year return no question asked. Never wrote anything for anybody since I always refused to be attached to any dealer activity. Now that I think about it, at $10 a pop I could have made a living!
So honestly I am not worried about this at all. The guy found a sale on a website probably he is closely spying but even that shows he does not take the time to find better.
BTW I am Canadian. So I doubt a Fed case for such things will ever see daylight....
Anyway thanks for headsup

For Joda and LW RODO buckles I do not have a clue.

**regiment739** · 05-27-2016, 02:06 PM

Gents, post 58, quite an interesting read

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/ss-buc...6/#post1631179

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 05-27-2016, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by regiment739 View Post

Gents, post 58, quite an interesting read

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/ss-buc...6/#post1631179

Hopefuly you did not get any Virus attached...The two latest he sent me were but my server was able to deal with them before reaching my inbox. Note his reference to the $5000 set on sale at CG site ... It is the picture above with my 2004 CoA. I was able to get the picture but gogo needs assistance? What pathetic !

**Joda** · 05-27-2016, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Jean Pierre Redeuilh View Post

....

For Joda and LW RODO buckles I do not have a clue.

Thank you Jean Pierre

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 05-29-2016, 04:49 PM

Hey guys,
Head to the ignorant website: he uploaded his new "evidence". How pathetic. Looks like someone publishing an article in the 60's! He even gave himself tools to Thayer to veryfyq fakes: acetone. But probably Thayer never did that test since he will never had that article otherwise. Pathetic.
Then a long haul on RZM and their marking on SS buckles. How can he be so ignorant? Who believes SS buckles were ever RZM marked with a M4 code?? HIM!!
He is so nice to kill himself! I do not have to do anything!,,

Want to laugh more? This is the email he sent me directly (that ignorant really hates the WAF):

Dear spado:
And a good day to you, sir, up in the wilds of Canada.
I have a new article up on my site, an article showing fake and original RODO buckles.
I haven't heard howling from you recently.
Are you having problems?
Might I suggest that you talk to a local proctologist about that large hole under your nose?
And you can tell your many spavined friends on the WAF and other cesspits that I am going to do to the belt buckle industry what I did to the SS rings, the Hitler paintings, the Third Reich rings, Allach porcelain, camouflage helmets, Atwood daggers and soon, Frenchmen who suffer from mental constipation and verbal diarrhea.

Poor guy. He should have been hated all his life.....

**regiment739** · 05-30-2016, 01:58 AM

I must admit JP, he can write ****e, pages and pages of rubbish, I dont bother now, he will not post anything that makes him look bad or hints at the truth, the man is a prime time throbber!

**brus** · 05-30-2016, 07:32 AM

News about SS RODO buckle appear:

http://www.adroystermilitaria.com/ne...9-2016-no-198/

The SS RODO at the top is original.... and in fact it is different from all buckles in Thayer article.

Regards
brus

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 05-30-2016, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by regiment739 View Post

he will not post anything that makes him look bad or hints at the truth, the man is a prime time throbber!

Never say never since he just did with his reply to Dan. Note:
" I do not have any SS buckles but in the past have had a number. One was a RODO. It was identical with the ones Dr. Thayer displayed."
He does not have any SS buckles ???? But in the past he had a number ??? When? In 1947? I am interested by ONLY SS buckles and still own over 100 of them currently. When someone is asking a question about real or fake I still sometimes have to grab one of them to check several details to be sure of what I am saying. I do not rely on my memory. I rely only on evidence. That guy relies on his dinosaur memory? The only thing he states like a slipping record is the particular bent RODO catch his memory recalls. Previous comments to him already stated fakes were also with that feature. Now no matter what, thanks to Dan who pushed him to this reply, I can safely say that even an idiot will have a doubt and will seek truth somewhere else. Hopefully here or at your own Forum.

Anyway, from the first contact we realized he has peanuts knowledge in term of SS buckles. But I want to maintain public awareness for anybody new coming from or to his website. The WAF and your own Forum, the WRF, are the best places for such awareness. Especially the WAF since it is mostly read by Americans (there is very few chances an article in the Military Advisor will be read outside the USA) compared to your with more European users. So I do want to have the thread coming up on a regular basis.

Also, since we know for a fact the website in question has manipulated comments, even visible current comments could one day be edited, modified or simply deleted to suit the owner's agenda. Posting here direct screenshots (this was made on purpose for evidence) any new comer will have proven records, not memory record...

Attached Files

**Ric Ferrari** · 05-31-2016, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by brus View Post

News about SS RODO buckle appear:

http://www.adroystermilitaria.com/ne...9-2016-no-198/

The SS RODO at the top is original.... and in fact it is different from all buckles in Thayer article.

Regards
brus

Since the beginning ADR has shown his total lack of knowledge about SS buckles, but it seems the same about Heer buckles.

By the above article (see link) is pictured an example of late war Heer buckle by RODO. All buckles collectors know this production do not show a bent catch like on SS, and for such reason ADR labels it : "A post-war reproduction Robert Dold buckle"

Ric

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