Development of Panzer throat mikes

[Satcong101]

This is a fantastic thread can someone please pin this to the top for future reference to all collectors!

Having read all the pages and learning that not all headsets and throat mikes were meant for Panzers ‘per say’ can anyone enlighten us further to the other uses they did have and markings found on the sets that associate them to help us understand what to look for and avoid if necessary.

For example what was the plug type used in StuGs?

[Nick Komiya]

I am happy to hear that you found this thread helpful.
On the other hand, I am not quite sure exactly what your question is about.
Stu.Gs employed a Panzerkasten 24, instead of 20 as in the case of tanks.
By plug , do you mean the plug for the throat mikes (2 or 3 prongs)?
Stu.Gs used kmfb mikes all around, meaning 3 pronged plugs.

[Satcong101]

Hi Nick and thanks for the speedy reply, you mentioned earlier in the thread about the different system employed in StuG from that I took it that you meant they used something slightly different from the Pz sets and not 2000 Ohms?

Another question I have is what were Dfh.f set used for, they look very similar to Pz sets?

And have you ever seen a single plug like this that has three core's (three contacts) used on sets before?

[Nick Komiya]

The　Stu.G intercom system I describe is relevant from the Stu.g III Ausf.E that came out in 1941.
The Stu.G models before that had no intercom system, and the commander even gave the driver steering instructions speaking into a acoustic tube like on ships. Stu.Gs used loudspeakers inside so multiple crew members could listen in in a more low tech way than on tanks. Like the tanks that all used the dfhb headsets throughout after the intro of the Panzerkasten 20 in 41/42, Stu.Gs used dfhb for all crew.
Dfhf is also a 2000 ohm set, but without the rubber padding, so normal radio use where ambient noise level is reasonable.
Single plugs I see in connection with telephones, but never in a Pz context.

[Satcong101]

Thanks Nick your knowledge is legendary and also very helpful. Telephones; now that you mention it, come to think of it I've seen that type of plug on switchboard equipment and the like. It was stuck on the end of a throat mike, didn't think it was right so think it best I search out for a spare three pin plug and put the set back to its original configuration.

[steverobertsbbc]

The plug in the photo is a B-gauge PO316 design, invented by the British Post Office for use in manual telephone switchboards. It's still used all over the world for audio patching in studios and production facilities.

[me6_130]

Hey nick,

I have just realised that 'dnz' and SABA are the same producer.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...49#post5958949


http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABA

Carles

[me6_130]

Nick,

do you recognise this logo?

Carles

[Nick Komiya]

Yes, they are now famous for their knives and scissors, so I found it surprising that they were involved in headset production during the war.

[me6_130]

I only knew that logo from the headsets

Carles

[Nick Komiya]

I thought we could use a bit of an update here.
Here are early and later examples of the intercom hook-up points. The first photo shows what was in use around 1940 up to 1942. The intercom box is Kasten Z19 (driver's intercom hook-up), which takes the dfhd headset with the stubby plug. The early throat mike is a pre-38 model, so a normal Kmfa mike would have been a more accurate match for the time-frame depicted. At this time only 3 crew members were plugged into the system, the commander, driver and radio man. Only the radio man used the dfhb headset, the other two used the dfhd set as shown.

The second photo shows a Kasten 25 as used by the gunner in a Stug from 1942 onwards. In 42, the vehicles got amplifiers built into the system in the form of Kasten 20 (for tanks) and Kasten 24 (for Stugs), which gave enough boost, in case of tanks, to finally allow the gunner to join the on-board conversation, increasing the number of plugged-in members to 4 (but still excluding the loader). By this time, all 4 members wore the dfhb headsets. Only the commander and radio man wore the kmfb mikes, as the other two wore kmfa sets.

[Nick Komiya]

And here is how the hook-up point in the turret looked for a command tank, installed with a second set of radios in the turret. Here a kmfb mike will not fit, as only kmfa mikes were used in Befehlpanzers.

[Fe 26]

very informative. Thanks for taking the time.

[Satcong101]

Agreed an incredibly important resource for information and history of the a fore mentioned topic, truly superb.

[Nick Komiya]

Readers of this thread know by now that the choice between headsets Dfhb or Dfhd, and also the choice between microphones kmfa and kmfb were determined by the type of onboard amplifier unit. The advent of the Panzerkasten 20, as the standard amplifier unit in tanks rendered the Dfhd headsets worn by all crew except the radio man obsolete. Also, this unit required use of two types of microphones kmfa and kmfb to optimize switch-boarding alternatives. Explaining this in more detail requires a proper introduction to the Panzerkasten 20, which is long overdue. So here it is, the Kasten 20.
There were two versions of Panzerkasten 20: the initial version that was introduced in 1941/42 (by June 42 it appears in technical manuals), and another, which incorporated a circuit update that came in September ‘43 . In the initial version, the circuit was set up to give the radio operator’s kmfb microphone access to the radio transmitter as a default, and what happened when he depressed the microphone switch was that this action put the commander on the radio transmitter, whether he wanted to or not. Thus initially, the commander himself did not have direct control over access to external communications. This shortcoming was overcome in the circuit improvement of 1943, which allowed the commander himself to decide whether he needed to transmit. In this improved setup, when the radio operator received an external message, which required the commander’s attention, he would notify the commander on the intercom system and the commander could then access the transmitter by depressing the kmfb mike switch. This latter version of Panzerkasten 20 is denoted by a red stripe added on the lid of the box underlining the plate immediately above that said “Kasten Pz. Nr. 20”.