Gau München Commemorative 1923-1933

[Richard]

Im not sure if read this right, but there have been late 1920's annual Stahlhelmbund day badges, that differ in colour (bronze/silver). The idea is that someone who attended for the second time such a meeting could instead of a bronze badge, wear a silver one. I can also think of e.g the 1929 RPT badges.

I can't prove this theory, but there is actually a greater number of these badges in both colours around.


All the good intended speculation from above aside, i don't think they have been made for more years and am still very sceptic regarding other colours as just bronze. Why are these until recently unknown? Why are there so much more silver SHB badges or 1929 RPT badges known, but untill recently not for the Munich Fest? When there is no written source available it's probably best to use common knowledge instead of wild speculation.


Just my $0,02

Interesting information. Do you have any images you might be able to post of the Stahlhelm badges? If I understand you correctly, someone that attended a 1926 meeting, for example, for the first time might get a bronze badge. Then, if they attended a second annual meeting in 1927, they would then receive the exact same badge only silver in color? Would these badges all still have the same date or were they undated?

I'm familiar with the 1929 RPT badge issued in more than one color and, since it was elevated to an Ehrenzeichen, was then reproduced in later years for those who might have lost the original. However this award was still for the distinction of having attended the 1929 rally and not made in different colors for attending rallies in different years.
Richard V

[jabnus]

Hi Richard,


I believe if someone had visited a previous meeting he would then instead of the bronze one get a siler one the next meeting. So the same badge was not sold/awarded in other years, but the attendee of the meeting would as a second time attender have a silver instead of bronze badge. I can post examples later if you like.

[Richard]

Hi Richard,


I believe if someone had visited a previous meeting he would then instead of the bronze one get a siler one the next meeting. So the same badge was not sold/awarded in other years, but the attendee of the meeting would as a second time attender have a silver instead of bronze badge. I can post examples later if you like.

Hi Gaston, I'd love to see examples and see what these badges looked like. Were they more of an ID badge or a day badge type of tinnie?
Richard V

[Jon Fish]

Call it what you like and say what you prefer about its purpose. I can tell you something with certainty. This badge has turned up in several of my Blood Order groupings direct from the families. Here for reference is firstly the badge in wear and secondly the badge replaced by the recipient with the Blood Order once the Blutorden was struck and awarded.

A year has passed and I don't think anyone commented on these images. Is this not suggesting that the badge ,although not a forerunner for the blood order, was indeed used that way by some, like this guy.....

[JoeW]

A year has passed and I don't think anyone commented on these images. Is this not suggesting that the badge ,although not a forerunner for the blood order, was indeed used that way by some, like this guy.....

Jon, I think Matthew answered your post a few hours later on 12/27/13. His comments echo my thoughts. Your photos are marvelous, but don't let your beliefs interpret what is shown in the photos.

[Matthew]

Another forerunner?

Based on your theory there would be few pieces we could consider as forerunners for BOs- take this one below for example: The award was introduced way before BO was ever produced and as we can see it was replaced by the recipient when BO made its debut.
Sorry Jon- I disagreed then and I still disagree now. My money would be on guys running out of real estate on their uniforms. I don't think this event tinnie came out with its own wear requirements.

cheers

Matt

[Matthew]

Here is another silver one by Deschler. This piece was sold by HH a while back.

cheers

Matt

[Bob Hritz]

I have seen only a few of these in alt silber finish, but have never seen another one, other than Matthew's, that was a deluxe made badge with better attachment device and solid. Does another example of such a pin exist? I think it will be very difficult to talk Matthew out of his, for my collection.

Bob Hritz

[Matthew]

I remember JohnT had one on his website in bronze grade/military pin configuration. Worth checking out.

Found it: http://www.germanwarbooty.com/item-m...ls%20m4500.htm

cheers

Matt

[der-hase-fee]

I have seen a flimsy 1931 Braunschweig first pattern with applied back plate.

[ErichS]

I have seen a flimsy 1931 Braunschweig first pattern with applied back plate.

Think that one was engraved as well.

[Matthew]

not really seen on every street corner but,

There's a modified solid back 1929 RPT on Weitze's now as well. Not sure if it's a factory variant or not but either way, it looks like the badge in question was by far not the only one to be modified this way.

cheers

Matt

[Richard]

One has to wonder when all the modifications occurred? It appears years go by and suddenly badges modified in a way which would indicate they have some elevated status appear. Have any of these modified badges had a traceable history/provenance that can assure collectors they were modified pre 1945?
Richard V

[Matthew]

Those badges with solid backs as mentioned above have no more elevated status than a GPB with a military style pins, IMO.

Difference between something like GPB with thick pin and those is- ALL of those discussed above are of hollow or semi-hollow construction to begin with. It means that if a different hardware was to be applied to those- something beefier, commonly referred to as 'military style' hardware, it would have to be applied using silver solder method (otherwise it would defeat the purpose of changing it).
Much like any Luftwaffe badges (also a reason you never see any Luft badge dripping with lead solder- it was not used on those). Problem with the so called 'silver' solder is- it melts at much higher temperature than a pressed hollow/semi hollow sheet of brass. So, it means that unless the wearer/awardee was into Swiss Cheese pattern, a thicker/stronger, preferably flat surface was needed to be added to perform that fusion.
There is a valid reason none of those converted, solid backed badges (short of zincers) show up with a weaker hardware.
Nothing sudden about them either- look at Gau Ost Hannover vs its almost identical hollow tinnie counterpart and their hardware types: both been documented to be around since 1933.

Now, just to add fuel to the fire- I believe they did produce the so called presentation grade tinnies for the events discussed above but at the same time, I do not believe any of the badges shown so far are of that variety- including mine.

cheers

Matt

[Matthew]

We can add 1933 RPT pins to the list of badges with military style hardware variants.
IMO, factory equipped as well.

cheers

Matt