Runic brooch photo

[Dmv]

Great info guys!
Micheal: love that tray!
Gaston: any more info in the booklet by Reydon, "Huismerken"

[jabnus]

Yes but i need some time to go over it. Will type a reply on housemarks in a day or two. My daily work takes a lot of time lately (glad i got a computer on my desk to log in here a few times a day to read and escape for a few minutes ).

[Michael Fay]

more runic heraldic book eye candy

SO here is another very little and short book on heraldic Wappen for the Nazi era. Sadly it is truly short on info...more of a outline primer.

I showed a few pages of this book a long time ago , but who remembers now?

This is a teaser as I await Gaston to get off work this weekend.

[jabnus]

Hi Michael,

I already typed a bit last night but need to finih it. I hope to complete it tomorrow and then of course post it here. Your last post/picture already sums it up quite well too. These marks are often misunderstood and seen as runes, which they are not (or only partly).

best regards,
Gaston

[jabnus]

Hi,

Work took a lot of my time lately, but here is finally a bit longer reply that perhaps explains a bit better the difference between runes and housemarks.


Best regards,
Gaston




--------------------------------------------------------------



As we can see in the picture of "Das Schwarze Korps" that Michael posted, Housemarks are used as a symbol of the "Sippe" (the family). While this practice was regaining popularity in the years of the third reich, it is actually a much, much older phenomenon. Centuries ago these marks were already used to show ownership and this explains why it is quite hard to credit the many unmarked items (and many phantasy items on the forum) to the third reich period, as this was only a relative short period in which housemarks were also used. The tray Michael posted
is dated 1941, so we fortunately know for sure when it was made. In the left familyweapon on the tray is a well known siegrune, but on the right side of the tray is another mark that is probably less known to many collectors. Often these unknown symbols are called runes as well, but they are not, as in fact they are housemarks.

While some of these marks resemble runes (and some like the siegrune on Michael's tray are of origin runes too), other marks consist of a combination of runes and/or sometimes with even a little extra stripe added to thus create a special mark for personal (family) use. Yet other marks are no runes at all, but are over time self invented/developed marks. This makes it not always easy to find out what mark we are dealing with, as the older or younger Futhark (the eldest Germanic runic alphabets) don't contain these symbols. To the untrained eye many housemarks and runes probably look the same as well. This explains why most of the time items with housemarks on them are called rune-items, which of course they are not, like the brooch in the picture from DMV in post #1 of this topic.

I had to dig up and re-read a little booklet i have from Hermannus Reydon, who was in the Netherlands a prominent NSB leader and an avid defender of farmers related folklore and germanic national character, on which he wrote quite a few booklets and articles in the years up untill august 1943 (his death). As i try to collect all his works i happen to have one called "Huismerken" (Housemarks), a small booklet in which he explains the use and meaning of housemarks. Although most publications from this period need to be seen through the eyes of their time, i think it's a quite interesting little booklet that explains the phenomenon well and can also be used to understand in current times why such items were important (again) in the period of the 1930's and early 1940's.

According to Reydon, housemarks could in the late 1930's be found particularly in/or on churches, e.g on the stone that a sculptor used for building or decorating a church, or on the churchbenches, doors or other (decorative) woodwork. Figure I under here shows a number of found examples from before 1940 in the Netherlands. Without any doubt very similar examples were also found at the same time as remains of the past, in Germany and even in England and several other western European countries. Some marks were officialy added over time to certain (official) objects like walls, stones or woodwork like wooden chests that date back in the Netherlands to the year 1600 (maybe even older). Others have been carved or added in later years by visitors of for example churches that carved their marks in benches or stone walls. Reydon also comes to the conclusion that the practice of using housemarks was something that had been in use throughout the whole Netherlands (the same goes probably for Germany as it was not an exclusive Dutch thing), but that had in the 1930's largely disappeared over time. In the centuries before the 20th century housemarks were used on guildletters and products made by a guild, but also e.g on sculptures. Furthermore housemarks were used on (old) wooden chests (we know that from here on the forum too, at least from the REAL ones), silverwork, stamps, and actually all kinds of wooden items on which it was needed that the owner of such an item had to make clear that his ownership over said item had to be displayed. This shows the importance of the marks in the past, as they were widespread accepted as replacement for a (family)name or person. All this is said as being a phenomenon for a time before the year 1800. Of course it was in these times (going back all the way to the middle ages) a replacement for a a signature, as many people could not write (or read). It was important here that in case of official by marks signed documents, that someone wrote next to the mark that it was placed voluntarily by the owner. It was also some kind of simpler farmers mark, as opposed to the (family)weapons of the nobility. Going back in time the marks are a typical germananic phenomenon, that spread all over Europe after the germanic peoples moved since the beginning of our time 2000 years ago. Figure II is an example of housemarks that were found all over europe in the period before 1940, from Norway, Sweden, Swiss, Germany, Island and even England. As such the housemarks were a typical germanic phenomenon. Special importance was given to housemarks in the Sachsenspiegel (click me), the Saksonian lawbook from around 1225, in which housemarks were used and for which their use was particularly important for farmers and farm law. In other roman languages the word "housemark" was known as well pre-1940, in French it was e.g called "Marque".


The meaning of the marks: many nations use marks, for example to mark livestock, or tools. These have a personal meaning (ownership). Quite confusing is that also marks exist(ed) to depict a certain group of people in a village or sometimes even to brand a farmhouse. Especially this last example should not be confused with housemarks! There is a profound distinction between personal or collective marks and the real housemarks, as we can observe in the Germanic law (see for example the Sachsenspiegel) and in the law of our ancestors. Short said, in the word "housemark" has "house" the same meaning as in "reigning royal family" or "The House of Orange (The Dutch Royal House)". It is not a building, but a genus (or "Sibbe"). This is already apparent from the above usage, that by using a housemark as a private label is mentioned, that this is the "innate" brand, or the "hereditary" brand. One finds among old charters, which were sealed by a nobleman, similarly, that the seal is his "congenital" weapon. Iceland, which has not had a Knight nobility, but remained a country of free Germanic farmers, also mentions in it's law a congenital brand/housemark.


In this area we have to look to understand how the housemark became a heriditary mark. The German writer Karl Gustav Homeyer (who is particularly known for his edition of the Sachsenspiegel (in 3 vols, 1827, 3rd ed., 1861, containing also some other important sources of Saxon or Low German law), and who also wrote and published in 1870 a book on "Die Haus- und Hofmarken", in which he has given a history of the use of trade-marks among all the Teutonic nations of Europe, and which is full of important elucidations of the history of law and also contains valuable contributions to the history of art and civilization. Homeyer explains in his work how a housemark-pedigree on the island Hiddensee, that spans five generations of a sippe, is used and may change. The oldest son carries the unchanged mark of the father, the younger sons slightly change this mark by adding an extra little stripe. In one glance one can then see, what the mainstem of the sippe is, and which sidebranches there are. As such are housemarks thus a sign of the germanic sippe. Homeyer goes further to explain how not every member of the sippe has the right to carry a housemark. Only he, who is also a family man (householder), has the right, because he is the head of those who descend from him. He is the father of a new "house" of the sippe, his oldest son will carry on the unchanged mark of his father, as soon as he succeeds him as head of the house. This practice is related to a quirk of the law, which is essentially Germanic tribal law. The tribe is made up of sippen, groups of relatives, all of whom derive their descent from a common ancestor (father). This ancestor now plays a large role in the legal and religious life. He is and remains the head of the sippe and is represented in and through the Housemark. The patriarch is head of sippe, his farm, the family Homestead of the sibbe, is the inalienable property of the sippe and steered by the male relative, who is the closest relative to the ancestor in blood. The housemark of the sippe is as such also his mark. (Not wanting to go too much offtopic but we all know of the Erbhof and Erbhof signs and the Odal rune that represents sippe-property, i think this explains their use and origin somewhat too!). Of course there is a lot more to say about this matter, as it explains Saksonian law as well, but this is probably all food for another discussion and goes too much in other areas of discussion. For now it is hopefully clear what a housemark is and how it developed. Over time many sippe housemarks of free farmers were replaced by the quickly since the late middle ages in popularity rising heraldic shields. Often housemark and shields were combined, enabling as such the housemark to exist still today in certain heraldic shields too. Especially at the countryside, housemarks can still be found, even today, in the heraldic shields of farmers.


The above is perhaps quite heavy (historical) content for someone who is not familiar with the subject of the cultural backgrounds of runes and housemarks. I tried to make it all not too difficult (and hope my translated English is understandable as such). There are a few very usefull tools online to consult for the collector who runs into collectibles with these symbols/characters on them. The easiest part is probably always to first check if a character is shown in the futhark, if it's not in there it's probably not a rune and maybe a housemark. The next step is then to check a book like Walter Blachetta's "Das Buch der Deutschen Sinnzeichen" or any period booklets that deal with this matter. It is a fun subject to dig more into though and once understood better it may be a more popular collecting area in the hobby too.

best regards,
Gaston

[jabnus]

Here's a picture that shows very well the development of housemarks, on the left we can see how the eldest son carries on the mark of the father, all other marks are slightly changed by adding extra stripes:

[Michael Fay]

Hello Gaston,
this will be very helpful to most who have any interest in this area!
can you tell me what is mentioned in your Homeyer book about no#29 in your Figure I and no#30 in your Figure II photos?

I note they are just about exact symbols (especially no.#29) of my tray's Hausmarken on the right side.

Thanks again, Michael.

PS, I might go ahead and post a special SippenWappen shortly.

[jabnus]

Hi Michael,

Figure I and figure II are both pages from Reydon, with examples. Figure I shows examples of housemarks found in the Netherlands in the period of the 1930's. Figure II shows examples of housemarks of other nations.

No. 29 from figure I is mentioned to be found in Rotterdam on the "Groote Kerk" (Big Church)

No.30 from figure II is mentioned to be from England, from Norwich.

I checked these both in Homeyer of course (which is not an easy task going through almost 550 pages!!!) and both can be somewhat credited as to be from the same areas as Reydon mentions them to be, although it seems more logic to me that other areas (and countries!) are possible too.

The big problem is that Homeyers book - although the standardwork on the subject - , is from the 19th century and we are in our hobby looking for answers of the period in the years relative close to 1945. There is a gap of lets say about 75 - 100 years before 1945, in which the marks might (very likely) have changed a little. The example page from Blachetta in my previous post (of the sippe Gau), which is a direct copy of the image of the sippe Gau in Homeyers work, shows how the marks can slightly change with every new generation. I think something similar might have happened with your housemark.

Although Homeyer lists (and explains) a great number of marks and also gives many names, these are all from older periods and are thus not handy to use for your mark i think. I found quite similar looking marks credited by Homeyer for Norwhich (England), Leiden (Netherlands) and with a little imagination (one stripe added here or there in later generations?) in e.g Oldenburg in Germany. These are however as said all marks from older periods and we need to find a source for your tray of the year 1941.


I think it might also be possible to go a bit back and try to analyse (or take apart) a certain mark and try to understand it's origin. I must however confess im not experienced well enough at this point to do that now and lack the time at the moment to try and do this. Going through all of Homeyers work i constantly ran into the top part of your mark (lets call it the triangle with a outsticking stripe) and there are a number of explanaitions for this, often called an Anker (Anchor).


When typing post #20 i mainly tried to explain what housemarks are and why they are not the runes many collectors think they are. The whole subject is quite complicated once you try to dig into it. One particular reason i also typed this is to make collectors aware that definately not all items that are credited to the third reich period are from this period.

I think we will run into this subject more often again in the future as it seems these cultural items are becoming more popular. What we need (and i don't know if this exists) is a period third reich source with equal dept as Homeyer. There are many SS booklets, but as your Schwarze Korps zeitung shows it's only a little article here or there with the occasional photo.


Im sorry to not be able at this point to give a more exact answer as to the meaning of the mark on your tray. Maybe someone more experienced than me can join us here?


best regards,
Gaston

[jabnus]

Maybe one other thing: many SS collectors are quite enthousiast to collect these runic/ownership marked items. The erbhof signs are a good example of a popular items that is quite hot to collect these days. I bet that if people would take the time and went digging into the real cultural background of such items (i also bet that most collectors won't do this as it take quite a bit of effort to understand this) they would probably be less interested as it would become clear that many items don't represent an exciting or thrilling SS background, but display a much much older cultural and historical background, that shows how German ancestry developed. Yes the SS had interest in bringing back old german traditions, but the SS existed only for a few years, while the historical meaning of this phenomenon is so much older and as such totally unrelated to Himmler and what he tried to make of it.

It's quite sad that many collectors nowadays make an immediate connection with the SS, with every rune or housemark symbol they encounter.

[Thorsten B.]

The Erbhof sign is very popular simply because it´s connected with the SS.

[jabnus]

The Erbhof sign is very popular simply because it´s connected with the SS.

Almost correct Thorsten, but although you will never admit it, you know very well the above should actually say:


The Erbhof sign is very popular simply because it´s SUPPOSEDLY connected with the SS.


We have had this discussion (too many) numerous times before and too many good discussions have been killed by you making such absurd replies. Please don't hijack another fine topic with your nonsense. We are trying to learn here more about runes and housemarks and their importance in german history. Not talk about more silly aussumptions from you without any facts to hump up supposedly backgrounds of items you sold with phantastic false stories about the SS (and withuot a doubt still sell too). Anyone who want's to read more about what Thorsten has to say for many pages and with many more pages of replies refuting and disproving his theories, can for example read about it hereCLICK. Although i could probably show another dozen topics with the same nonsense, all good topics that are runed by Thorsten.

Thorsten: you have been warned by the mods and kept low the past months. Please remain so and don't reply here in this topic if you have nothing substantial to add. I hope a moderator will keep an eye open and keep the discussion ontopic.

[Thorsten B.]

Mmh..nothing speaks against a smooth discussion, Gaston.

Maybe we will simply agree to disagree in regards to the cultural and ideological background of the Erbhof sign - as well as probably in regards to some other cultural goodies. But hey! - so is collector´s life, everybody is entitled to develope an own opinion about certain pieces.
Even the first version of the Blood Order seems unacceptable as a highly significant and desirable piece for some.

Nonetheless in regards to any piece we can find the answer to go back to the roots of that specific cultural item - you did a good job to summarize the use and development of german Hausmarken and Sippenzeichen in the german past.

Fact is: without SS-Obergruppenführer and Himmler-Intimus Richard Walther Darré there would have been no realization and introduction of the Erbhof sign.
And there are more historical facts that show the deep connection of Darré´s Reichsnährstand and Himmler´s SS.

[Gran Sasso]

Any infos about this type of brooch?

[jabnus]

Hi,

This is a great photo!!!


The woman wears a large (civilian) brooch. As can be seen in the photo these were really quite large!

Depicted in the centre is an "Elhaz" rune, of the old Futhark. This was one of the more popular runes in the period 1902 - 1945, at that time also called the "Lebensrune""(Life rune). It was in the period of the Third Reich used as "Lebensborn" symbol, or better said as symbol for the birthdate.

It should be mentioned that in 1902 Guido von List introduced his own interpretation of the ancient runes of the futhark and introduced his "Armanenfuthark". Although this was a pure fictional runic alphabet, it gained quite some interest from the nazi's and several runes were used by a range of german organisations. The lebensrune and it's shape are however based on the Elhaz rune.


best regards,
Gaston

Ps: as opposed to the lebensrune meaning, the same rune means when pictured upside down "Todesrune" (Yr rune), or death date. (List stole this rune from the Younger Futhark).

[Michael Fay]

Nonetheless in regards to any piece we can find the answer to go back to the roots of that specific cultural item - you did a good job to summarize the use and development of german Hausmarken and Sippenzeichen in the german past.

.

You sit there giving back handed compliments about other's freely given information, while there is nothing from you.
pathetic.