H. Himmler gift.....

[Michael Fay]

I remember very well that one pair of silver cups with the exact same outward appearance (shape) were auctioned a few years ago by Andreas Thies, supposedly given as a personal gift of Himmler due to the marriage of an SS-Gruppenführer or SS-Obergruppenführer, can check the details via a look into that catalogue at some point.

They were sold for good money and as I already thought by looking at the pics they turned out to be fakes - and it took quite some time and efforts of the "lucky" buyer to make Thies taking them back which he finally had to and did.

Apart from the untypical shape of the shown piece I have yet to see any of Himmers personal gifts bearing that kind of snobbish signature of him.

Thorsten , when you state:
"I have yet to see any of Himmer's personal gifts bearing that kind of snobbish signature of him"

Were not the signed and named Kinderfries personal gifts?-that he himself initiated and controlled who (of those high SS who had 4 children)might recieve one?

Note the exact style of Himmler signature facsimile as Joe's piece.
Is that too "snobbish" for you?

[Vid]

Thorsten , when you state:
"I have yet to see any of Himmer's personal gifts bearing that kind of snobbish signature of him"

Were not the signed and named Kinderfries personal gifts?-that he himself initiated and controlled who (of those high SS who had 4 children)might recieve one?

Note the exact style of Himmler signature facsimile as Joe's piece.
Is that too "snobbish" for you?

Michael,

That is a very snobby piece you have there, it also came in a snobby raised patterned signature. Maybe the Allach expert can explain that. The problem you may have with it is that Thorsten does not own it.

[Seiler]

Michael,

That is a very snobby piece you have there, it also came in a snobby raised patterned signature. Maybe the Allach expert can explain that. The problem you may have with it is that Thorsten does not own it.

Is "Christa" also snobby?Gee ,I thought she was "Special"!
Seiler.

[Vid]

Is "Christa" also snobby?Gee ,I thought she was "Special"!
Seiler.

I remember Christa, tried to run her down with no luck. I think she is special actually. Does it have the raised snobby or the black snobby dedication? Here is the raised Snobby one http://www.thirdreicharts.com/engine...Filter=Archive

Kris

[Thorsten B.]

"Thorsten, I wrote above about similar signatures found on "..other presentation pieces such as TK rings and some presentation firearms..", not cultural pieces."

Joe,

The Ehrenring - among others - IS an SS cultural piece.

For the answer in regards to the rest of your comment please re-read my comment.

If you still got questions you are invited to ask again.


Mr. Lindblom,

Actually I value the very first realized Geburtsleuchter of Allach much higher than the later Kinderfriesleuchter - there are more than enough still around.

But when it comes to Allach uniqueness is .

[Vid]

Mr. Lindblom,

Actually I value the very first realized Geburtsleuchter of Allach much higher than the later Kinderfriesleuchter - there are more than enough still around.

But when it comes to Allach uniqueness is .

Kind of gaudy really, not sure I like the paint on that piece personally. To each his own I guess.

Best,

Kris

[Thorsten B.]

Michael,

In regards to your comment 32 here is the essential part of my comment 27 presented to you again - you must have missed it:

"Of course we can find that on other presentation pieces - but especially on SS cultural pieces (the Walthers are not really a part of that category) the Himmler signature is just not visable.

Allach Kinderfriesleuchter, Allach Hochzeitsbecher, Gahr jewelry and also the sword and dagger - the signature appears to be well put."

Got it?

[Vid]

Michael,

In regards to your comment 32 here is the essential part of my comment 27 presented to you again - you must have missed it:

"Of course we can find that on other presentation pieces - but especially on SS cultural pieces (the Walthers are not really a part of that category) the Himmler signature is just not visable.

Allach Kinderfriesleuchter, Allach Hochzeitsbecher, Gahr jewelry and also the sword and dagger - the signature appears to be well put."

Got it?

Not what you say here?

Apart from the untypical shape of the shown piece I have yet to see any of Himmers personal gifts bearing that kind of snobbish signature of him.

Clearly an Allach expert would know this to be untrue. Who painted that candle holder of yours, its certainly better than that Amsel you were back door marketing but seems odd for some reason.

[Thorsten B.]

"Kind of gaudy really, not sure I like the paint on that piece personally. To each his own I guess."


Yes, that is true.

Not every "Gentleman" is able to detect if the colouring of an Allach piece is an authentic - and valuable! - job executed in the period by the responsible Allach artists.

The recent case regarding the offer of the humped up coloured Allach Kohlmeise on a specialized dealer´s website clearly indicates that fact.

[Vid]

"Kind of gaudy really, not sure I like the paint on that piece personally. To each his own I guess."


Yes, that is true.

Not every "Gentleman" is able to detect if the colouring of an Allach piece is an authentic - and valuable! - job executed in the period by the responsible Allach artists.

The recent case regarding the offer of the humped up coloured Allach Kohlmeise on a specialized dealer´s website clearly indicates that fact.

Maybe you can go over and post photos of that crappy painted Amsel for review, that was an awful paint job when compared to the Robin.

[Thorsten B.]

Mr. Lindblom,

No need to derail this informative thread.

If you think you need to discuss anything else I suggest you just open your own thread in an appropriate forum and - if that is possible - in a Gentlemen´s manner.

[JoeW]

"Thorsten, I wrote above about similar signatures found on "..other presentation pieces such as TK rings and some presentation firearms..", not cultural pieces."

Joe,
......

For the answer in regards to the rest of your comment please re-read my comment.

If you still got questions you are invited to ask again.

Thorsten,

Is one to infer your retraction of your statement that my cup is a fake by this comment of yours #27?

"Seems to me that two different variations in regards to shape were presented - the one visable in Jim´s shared picture and the other different one in the shape as the cup which started this thread."

Jim's cup is not a fake; my cup is shaped like Jim's; ergo, mine is not a fake after all? Have I missed something in the post. I re-read it as you suggested. Please explain.

[Thorsten B.]

Joe,

I think this is a discussion forum where we share pics of items and knowledge and - discuss it.

I commented your shared pic of your cup in my post 14:

"I would be surprised if the last shown cup is real."

Did I ever call your cup a fake?

Not that I am aware of - I commented it like others did in this thread as well.

But it seems that you only focus on my shared opinion and finally by even accusing me that I judged it to be a fake - which I never did.

Why is that?

Can you explain that to me?

[Jeff Clark]

Please keep this discussion on the subject and don't let it deteriorate into personal attacks.

[JoeW]

Jeff, I am not personally attacking Thorsten. I am asking him to substantiate his statement of authenticity of my cup that I posted. I believe that is what is asked of participants on this forum.

Thorsten, what is your definition of the word "is"?

Don't play word games with us Thorsten. If you doubt (would be surprised) that the cup is real, then you believe it to be unreal- a fake. Or are you did you make a philosophical comment on the nature of existence? Now for example, if I would write "I doubt that anything you sell on WAF or elsewhere is real", would that mean I said you sell fakes? Of course it would. But I did not write that categorical statement.

Nordmark commented that such cups shown needed excellent provenance and he believed 99.9% were fake. He supported it by indicating he had such a silver cup and could have it engraved as he pleased. Perhaps he would show us that cup too, but at least he commented and supported his comment.

I focused on your comment because you would not provide substantiation to it. If you are going to post decided opinions on the authenticity of items on this forum, then at least be a man about it and back up your comments with facts. Don't weasel out of it by playing word games.