H. Himmler gift.....

[Seiler]

I remember Christa, tried to run her down with no luck. I think she is special actually. Does it have the raised snobby or the black snobby dedication? Here is the raised Snobby one http://www.thirdreicharts.com/engine...Filter=Archive

Kris

Crisp,jet black,well executed signature.No damage.Just like it was just done with a "Sharpie".
I shall go to Berlin in April to read her fathers files and Heinies Gift Diaries.
Easier than having the Staff do it.They are kinda useless.
Cheers.
DP

[Thorsten B.]

Joe,

Just re-read my comment 17 and 24.

In addition to that it´s my choice which words combined with which related intentions and meanings leave my mouth - and not yours.

It´s called the freedom of speech - so please do not try to make me say what you would like to hear.

If you cannot live with opinions of others different from yours when it comes to a piece you own and show you just shouldn´t post it.

And for finally give back some substance to this thread and develope can we get back to discuss THE ITEM?

How about sharing more pics of your cup?

[Michael Fay]

Joe,

I think this is a discussion forum where we share pics of items and knowledge and - discuss it.

I commented your shared pic of your cup in my post 14:

"I would be surprised if the last shown cup is real."

Did I ever call your cup a fake?

Not that I am aware of - I commented it like others did in this thread as well.

But it seems that you only focus on my shared opinion and finally by even accusing me that I judged it to be a fake - which I never did.

Why is that?

Can you explain that to me?

It was plain as day that you were questioning the authenticity of Joe's cup.

[Thorsten B.]

And so?

Questioning an item´s authenticity is one thing - calling it a fake is totally different from that.

And therefore these should not be mixed up or equalized.

[Michael Fay]

And so?

Questioning an item´s authenticity is one thing - calling it a fake is totally different from that.

And therefore these should not be mixed up or equalized.

So back up your "calling it into question" like any reasonable gentleman,
as Joe has repeatedly requested you to do. As long as you refuse to explain your reasons clearly, it looks like your opinion is baseless-and mean-spirited.

[Thorsten B.]

See comment 15 and 24.

[JoeW]

Forget it Michael. It's history.

[Michael Fay]

only explanation:not an expert

Not what you say here?



Clearly an Allach expert would know this to be untrue. Who painted that candle holder of yours, its certainly better than that Amsel you were back door marketing but seems odd for some reason.

Vid, i think you have touched on somthing important;
Thorsten is not an authority on Allach after all --or cups--or anything.
Probably not on this thread, but it might be nice to hear a lot more about the questionable Amsel item !

[Michael Fay]

Forget it Michael. It's history.

OK Joe,
It would have been better for all if thorsten could have come clean about his inability to defend his opinion.

[Michael Fay]

It is a very old German word, it would fit very well into Wagner´s work...


Regards,


Daniel

going back to Hefgir's cup and the saying on it:

...ob Sieg oder Unsieg.."

as Un is a negative prefix (absolute negation) like the english "dis" in dishonest,
I will consider it to say "...whether victory or non-victory(utter defeat)..."
We all know Sieg was a popular Nazi-Deutsch term...
so I can see Un-Sieg being a powerful use of words.

[Minnesinger]

going back to Hefgir's cup and the saying on it:

...ob Sieg oder Unsieg.."

as Un is a negative prefix (absolute negation) like the english "dis" in dishonest,
I will consider it to say "...whether victory or non-victory(utter defeat)..."
We all know Sieg was a popular Nazi-Deutsch term...
so I can see Un-Sieg being a powerful use of words.

Correct. 'Sieg oder Unsieg ruht in Gottes Hand / Der Ehre sind wir selber Herr und König!' to quote a piece of 40's art on my wall.

But anyways... Should a Himmler presentation-piece have so many inconsistencies? I'm no expert but I would have thought that the lettering would be constant and not all over the place. Not a single letter looks the same in two places.

[jimt]

Correct. 'Sieg oder Unsieg ruht in Gottes Hand / Der Ehre sind wir selber Herr und König!' to quote a piece of 40's art on my wall.

But anyways... Should a Himmler presentation-piece have so many inconsistencies? I'm no expert but I would have thought that the lettering would be constant and not all over the place. Not a single letter looks the same in two places.

Very interesting observation, this would give me grave concerns....

[sgstandard]

Cup

I have no idea whether or not either cup is authentic, nor do I favor any of the participants. It was too tiresome to re-read all the comments, and I may have missed things, but it seems like Thorsten should be able to give his opinion just like everyone else, regardless of whether he's a novice, or the Grand Pooh-bah of Antiquities. As long as someone states WHY they like or dislike an item, then people are free to accept their opinion or not. It reminds me of the infamous "Frank" TK Ring. I was considered a heretic for daring to criticize it at first. PM's demanded to know who I was, and what were my credentials, and how DARE you criticize such a fine artifact? Turns out it was junk of course. (NO, I'n NOT saying either cup is junk - I have no idea) Not to fret though, because the administration in THIS country has set up "Truth Squads" in every state to counter smears against the czar and his lovely czarina . Sadly, that is not a joke, as GREEN is the new RED.

[sgstandard]

Cup

After examining the engraving on cup in Post #1, I have doubts it was done by a Nazi-era German engraver. The first pic looks darn good, but when you examine the engraving closely, you'll see anomalies you wouldn't expect. 1. Letters that touch each other, while others are spaced. 2. Small letters that are out of proportion with each other. 3. Large letters that just don't look right (The "M" in "Manner" for example). These capital letters don't flow like they were made by professionals, but look forced, like the engraver was struggling. German hand-engravers from that time period were among the best. If the engraving on the 1st cup is authentic, I'd be surprised.
The 2nd cup posted by JoeW looks like it's the same shape as the one that Himmler is holding. The 1st cup's shape is way different.

[chrischa]

I have no idea whether or not either cup is authentic, nor do I favor any of the participants. It was too tiresome to re-read all the comments, and I may have missed things, but it seems like Thorsten should be able to give his opinion just like everyone else, regardless of whether he's a novice, or the Grand Pooh-bah of Antiquities. As long as someone states WHY they like or dislike an item, then people are free to accept their opinion or not. It reminds me of the infamous "Frank" TK Ring. I was considered a heretic for daring to criticize it at first. PM's demanded to know who I was, and what were my credentials, and how DARE you criticize such a fine artifact? Turns out it was junk of course. (NO, I'n NOT saying either cup is junk - I have no idea) Not to fret though, because the administration in THIS country has set up "Truth Squads" in every state to counter smears against the czar and his lovely czarina . Sadly, that is not a joke, as GREEN is the new RED.

H, mate, you're a good guy. I think people can see that. Not everyone deserves that opinion.