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H. Himmler gift.....

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    #61
    Sgtstandard, I agree with you that everyone has a right to express their opinion, ".. as long as someone states WHY they like or dislike an item, then people are free to accept their opinion or not." That was all that I was asking of Thorsten.

    Here is a picture of the birth-cup/Patentgeschenk. It is difficult to photograph a curved reflective object indoors. Luckily, the shiny surface is clouded a bit with finger-prints. The opposite side of the cup bears the recipients first name and birthdate of 15.VII.1938. This corrsponds to his listed birthdate on his father's SS Officer card. But surprisingly, Himmler's list of Patentkinder list the child with the same birthdate, but a year latter. Hmm, typist error.



    Jim, it appears that the cup in your photo would be of similar shape as mine, but longer as it was for an adult. Mine is only about 3 1/2 inches in height and meant for a child.

    Thorsten, you wrote the following quote on the eternal "A couple of cultural items" thread on the SS Uniform and Insignia Forum in the summer of 2010. "I wonder if someone can show pics of a typical Patengeschenk (gift as being godfather) of Himmler for some selected children which means a silver spoon and a pusher (in german language Schieber, an old-fashioned type of cutlery especially made for feeding babies) as documented in his gift lists." It was after I had posted the photo of the Patentgeschenk that I posted earlier on this thread. I have Himmler's gift lists as well as his Patentkinder list and I cannot find any mention of this typical Patentgeschenk gift, a silver spoon or Schieber, that you describe above.

    Here is another piece of silver from the same source. This one is a small cigar case of silver, lined with cedar and engraved. I restored some of the cedar lining from used cigar boxes and added some small cigars.



    The box closed and the presentation inscription.





    In the lower right hand corner is the engraved Sig-Runen.



    And the silver quality and producer mark.



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      #62
      Cup

      Even though the lettering style is different, compare the engraving on the cigarette case with the engraving on the 1st cup on post #1, and notice the perfect spacing on the cig. case. THAT'S what I expect from a period German engraver. Also, the Himmler signature on JoeW's cup is what I would expect it to look like. The cup on post #1 gives the impression that the engraver was copying the Himmler signature from a totenkopfring, especially the "H"s.

      Comment


        #63
        the new criterion :snobbish

        Originally posted by sgstandard View Post
        I have no idea whether or not either cup is authentic, nor do I favor any of the participants. It was too tiresome to re-read all the comments, and I may have missed things, but it seems like Thorsten should be able to give his opinion just like everyone else, regardless of whether he's a novice, or the Grand Pooh-bah of Antiquities. As long as someone states WHY they like or dislike an item, then people are free to accept their opinion or not. It reminds me of the infamous "Frank" TK Ring. I was considered a heretic for daring to criticize it at first. PM's demanded to know who I was, and what were my credentials, and how DARE you criticize such a fine artifact? Turns out it was junk of course. (NO, I'n NOT saying either cup is junk - I have no idea) Not to fret though, because the administration in THIS country has set up "Truth Squads" in every state to counter smears against the czar and his lovely czarina . Sadly, that is not a joke, as GREEN is the new RED.
        I require people to give some reason for their opinion-even if it is-"I just have a feeling"...because then I can take that as "a feeling" and not that there is solid evidence at the person's fingertips that we (or especially JoeW) need to hear.

        There were no truth Squad PMs from me-I do assure you.

        And I love heretics (dont you realize I am the heretic for taking on this guy? No one wants me to-dont rock the boat, etc).

        but it takes forever to get this "Grand Pooh bah(thanks for that SGst)" to offer the pathetically crippled assessment " it is snobbish looking."
        I will accept his right to assert this, but expect it up front. Before I start laughing.

        It was all worth my troubles just to learn this new criterion of expert evalution of "snobbish," VS. "not snobbish"
        I will cherish this criterion eternally.

        Comment


          #64
          Cup

          Back to the items. 1. I DON'T like the engraving on the 1st cup for the reasons I stated, but that doesn't mean it's not real. 2. I DO like the engraving on the cig. case. 3. I also like the 2nd cup (posted by JoeW).

          Comment


            #65
            So Joe´s cup is from Weitzel and is original - he did not mention that upfront but now we know.

            And I am surprised.

            Regarding the Patengeschenk I will look into my docs to be able to tell you more in regards to the mentioned pieces in detail.

            Comment


              #66
              Cup

              Frankly, I don't know if either cup is original, but if I had to bet, it would be on the one that JoeW posted. I like the signature, and it's uncanny how close it looks to the one Himmler is holding, and that's kind of an odd shape too.

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post
                So Joe´s cup is from Weitzel and is original - he did not mention that upfront but now we know.

                And I am surprised.

                Regarding the Patengeschenk I will look into my docs to be able to tell you more in regards to the mentioned pieces in detail.
                I must correct myself, as I have found references to a Schieber gifted by Himmler to a child of Krebs,as well as some other of his Patentkinder. But they were presents given for Christmas. But the same list reveals a Silberner Becher given as a birthday present in the year of the Krebs child's birth.

                And Jim, not only did Lammers receive a Silberen Becher from Himmler on his birthday in 1939, his wife also got one.
                Last edited by JoeW; 02-16-2012, 05:06 PM.

                Comment


                  #68
                  beaker

                  Joe, do you have anything given to Wolff ?
                  jim

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post
                    And so?

                    Questioning an item´s authenticity is one thing - calling it a fake is totally different from that.

                    And therefore these should not be mixed up or equalized.


                    Does anyone really even take this guy seriously anymore?

                    Comment

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