Himmler's School Booklet

[alexanderautogr]

J. Wrathful - You don't need to be fluent in German to determine whether an A.L.S. by Himmler is in his hand or not, just as experts and authenticators of El Greco don't have to be artists.

I have sold items signed by Claude Monet, Diego Rivera, Bernardo O'Higgins, Geronimo, Cetewayo...and Himmler...for decades. And they don't come back as being not authentic. I have translators at my disposal to transcribe the text.

Next time you make a post, remember what Lincoln said:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt".

[alexanderautogr]

Glad to do it, Bill. I was planning on bringing it to you to SOS to look at.

Thank you, Craig. I think this is a happy, viable solution for all that will quickly resolve this seemingly interminable issue.

Fedex the document to me at my office. I'll study it immediately. I'll then obtain three opinions from my colleagues. Initially, I'll use high-res images. If an expert believes it's patently fake on the basis of those images, there will be no need to send the item to him. If he wants to see the item in person, I'll ship it at my risk.

I will give YOU a detailed report on my findings, but I will make only a "yea-nay" pronouncement here as we don't need a thousand other people again jumping into the fray.

I assume the above is acceptable to you? Oh...and you must concede that I am the greatest auctioneer ever...

[Craig Gottlieb]

I'm also going to show it to Helmut, who is intimately familiar with the German school system, and can help out. Of interest, this is the first time since the saga began that I've had time to look at the actual book (I have been out of the office since mid-week last week). Here are some observations:

1) It appears this book was recycled - the first 1/2 of the book has been neatly removed using a razor blade.

2) The interior of the book - where all of the math work is contained, is dated on each page. The dates all fall in between February-March 1916, at which time Himmler was training with the Cadet Corps (Longerich, Peter. (2011). Heinrich Himmler: A Life. Oxford University Press).

2) The book contains the writing of two people. The "student" (since there is some doubt that it is Himmler) and the "teacher." The teacher has some lengthy notes in the front, and has corrected the math on the inside.

3) Using my microscope, it is apparent that the same ink is used for ALL of the writing on the front of the book. ALL of the interior "student' writing on the interior used a different pen, but the same hand.

4) Speaking to the person from whom I purchased this book, I was able to learn that it originally came from. As soon as I confirm the dates (we had to cut our conversation short, as I had an appointment in my office), I will post that as well.

These are mere observations, not meant to pursuade or dissuade. Just information for general use by researchers. I will likely start a longer thread in the documents section of this forum, where this book can be discussed without the drama.

[alexanderautogr]

Then I assume you want to hold on to it until after SOS, correct?

[Craig Gottlieb]

No, I'm sending it to you today.

[J. Wraith]

J. Wrathful - You don't need to be fluent in German to determine whether an A.L.S. by Himmler is in his hand or not, just as experts and authenticators of El Greco don't have to be artists.

I have sold items signed by Claude Monet, Diego Rivera, Bernardo O'Higgins, Geronimo, Cetewayo...and Himmler...for decades. And they don't come back as being not authentic. I have translators at my disposal to transcribe the text.

Next time you make a post, remember what Lincoln said:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt".

You should take your own advice sir, I would not buy a post card from you, let alone a C.O.A. Not in this hobby Mr. Auctioneer with rampant promotional signature line.

[fritztk]

book

Gee whiz
With all this new scientific information that has been posted
Regarding this book, even though it has been in vendors office for ages
Plus his friendly autograph expert, not in third Reich seemingly
I have no doubt that all will be declared 1 million % genuine
So I most sincerely apologise for my crass comments
Fraser

[fritztk]

You should take your own advice sir, I would not buy a post card from you, let alone a C.O.A. Not in this hobby Mr. Auctioneer with rampant promotional signature line.

likewise sir
I would rather buy a TREASURE from Mr Snyder
Than spend tuppennce , that's 2 pennies in English
For Herr Himmlers genuine schoolbook
Cheers
Fraser

[alexanderautogr]

1) It appears this book was recycled - the first 1/2 of the book has been neatly removed using a razor blade....2) The interior of the book - where all of the math work is contained, is dated on each page. The dates all fall in between February-March 1916, at which time Himmler was training with the Cadet Corps...

Thanks - glad you cleared that up and I await your shipment.

You've added a few interesting points in that all the pages are dated, and that the razored pages are all in the front of the book. That raises in my mind the possibility that Himmler might have used the book as a child, and "recycled" it as a cadet, explaining the cut-out pages and the later dates. Of course, your research would have to be double-checked...The serious question of the mixed-up scripts on the cover needs to be addressed.

But the ONLY thing that really matters is the handwriting, as that's what you're selling.

We're going to use a video spectral comparator on the cover, a sophisticated (and expensive!) machine which will determine if two different inks were used. I'll also look for offsetting on the first page of the text from any previous writing in the book that has been cut-out, and I'll gather as many additional exemplars of his early handwriting as possible.

Remember that in my business, we err on the side of caution, so don't be shocked if you get back a bag of confetti...

And as for Messrs. Wraith and Fritz...I need not elaborate upon my qualifications, to you or anyone else. You play with your tinnies, I'll sell my autographs. Stick to what you know.

[fritztk]

book

Thanks - glad you cleared that up and I await your shipment.

You've added a few interesting points in that all the pages are dated, and that the razored pages are all in the front of the book. That raises in my mind the possibility that Himmler might have used the book as a child, and "recycled" it as a cadet, explaining the cut-out pages and the later dates. Of course, your research would have to be double-checked...and most importantly, everything hinges on the handwriting and an explanation for the aberrations in the scripts used on the cover.

We're going to use a video spectral comparator on the cover, a sophisticated (and expensive!) machine which will determine if two different inks were used. I'll also look for offsetting on the first page of the text from any previous writing in the book that has been cut-out. I'll also gather as many additional exemplars of his early handwriting as possible.

Remember that in my business, we err on the side of caution, so don't be shocked if you get back a bag of confetti...but then again, you might not. But it's MY credibility on the line, for free.

and I might have written the Hitler diaries
But I didn't..
So now we have 2 self promoting auctioneers
Both with with recent threads on dubious items they were selling
Cozying up to each other ...
Any collector with a brain will see right through this charade
Regards
Fraser

[alexanderautogr]

Be very careful what you post, Mr. Fraser. I prefer not to mete out to you the same treatment I have given your friends Stump and Royster. I protect my business and its reputation very jealously and I do not suffer fools gladly.

[Thorsten B.]

WAF - where like-minded persons come together.

[fritztk]

Be very careful what you post, Mr. Fraser. I prefer not to mete out to you the same treatment I have given your friends Stump and Royster. I protect my business and its reputation very jealously and I do not suffer fools gladly.

oh, I'm quaking with fear in my slippers
And who is stumpy and royster ??
No one I know for sure
And Fraser is my first name, so you can dispense with MR
Thanks for your valued input
Fraser

[fritztk]

book

And if your reputation is so precious to your good name
Perhaps it would be prudent to stop offering such controversial items
Like szkornzey watch , Hitler desk set
And offering to validate the obviously dubious Herr himmler schoolbook
Cheers
Fraser

[J. Wraith]

Be very careful what you post, Mr. Fraser. I prefer not to mete out to you the same treatment I have given your friends Stump and Royster. I protect my business and its reputation very jealously and I do not suffer fools gladly.

Ya know, these forums are designed for collectors to exchange information and keep up to date with going on in the hobby. And you seem to think that this is a platform to promote yourself with a non sponsored signature line and turn every post into threats and your battle with people that have nothing to do with the topic no matter which topic your involved with. And here you are now as a business person threatening a forum member with retribution for questioning you.

This is not good business, and you have no experience and this is a claim you have personally made yourself and you alienate everyone and drag us all into your drama. Who cares?. The main concern for collectors has little to do with your self promotion and ego or even your C.O.A. You are in a hobby different than any other and you seem to be under the impression that you can walk in and threaten, intimidate, and promote your auction and expect that people are going to respond to that.

No, this is 3rds Reich collectibles and these forums by design are up for collectors to exchange information on items and subjects that pertain to the history that you yourself claim to no nothing about. You take photos, add prices, and you drop the hammer on items that you can get into Reuters and promote as controversial. And it amazes me that this forum allows this as you are essentially a nobody who has no reputation in this arena, and no qualifications in the German tongue. I find that rather amazing and do not see that as a benefit to this hobby.

Your killing yourself, and you do not need me, or Fritz or anyone to help you with this. You quite frankly are your own worst enemy. And I for one will step forward right now and state without hesitation that I will never do business with you no matter what you have, as I am a collector and have no interest in your promotions or inexperience. You have no credibility with me and your personality is a complete turnoff and if the WAF management wants to allow you to run that is their decision. But I know everyone and so do many others in this hobby, and the more you talk the more you sink. And it will be the the collector that will bury you in the end. You can play your game, but you are not dealing with dummies, and you are going to learn that the hard way.

Have a good day.

J