Announcement

**alexanderautogr** · 01-23-2012, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by JoeW View Post

Mr. P, what page are you on? This thread started less than a week ago and it has degenerated.

As for your suggested organization, it seems to me that it would be an automatic conflict of interest. Not quite an Oxymoron, but close. As I recall, the Max Group started such an altruistic organization. Or didn't they?

Joe -

My posts should make it clear that I'm trying to AVOID the degeneration of this thread and the hobby as a whole. My "Stump/Royster" dig was meant as a bit of sarcasm, in case you haven'y been following my posts elsewhere. Please re-read what I have written.

Conflict of interest? I don't understand - can you explain?

I'm trying to do what's best for everyone - a sane, organized group of qualified collectors and dealers. PADA (padaweb.org) is a dealer's organization, so I have to figure out a way to incorporate collectors. Perhaps charge a small fee for authentication? Still sorting it out in my head, but my aim is true.

Not familiar with what MAX came up with. Would like to hear the details - but I know that PADA works - famously.

**PAUL.H** · 01-24-2012, 04:23 AM

Originally posted by alexanderautogr View Post

Pavel -

With all due respect, my friend "Stump's" favorite website "Dolos Project" (which I believe he built and funds, and uses his portrait on when he posts), is essentially dedicated to crucifying Mr. Gottlieb, and, respectfully, I suspect you are a regular, daily contributor thereat. So I suspect that your desire to close this thread might further that website's ends.

Please explain if I am wrong in that presumption.

Now, as I have stated before, I don't do any business with Mr. Gottlieb (I sold one lot for him a year or two ago), he did not "own" the desk set we sold (as imbeciles "Stump" and "Royster" alleged), so I am not defending his reputation in any way. But he and his customers and clients should be allowed a chance to chime in here to defend him, just as his detractors should be offered the same opportunities.

Perhaps a "Stump/Keating" thread could be started here, or preferably, a "Dealer/Collector Organization" thread (the organization I advocate). Nevertheless, I think this thread should be kept open as its hits are enormous, it's been open for years, and it has a regular list of advanced collectors and contributors who contribute a great deal to this hobby.

Seems to me like you want to cash in your chips after winning one hand. Not very sportsmanlike, I dare say.

mr panagopulos,
firstly tks for responding to this thread and giving your opinion.
the delos/project is not funded ,owned or controlled by wcstump , he is a member like many other no more ,no less . its aim is not as you surmise to crucify mr gottlieb.
its prime aim is to draw attention to fakes /frauds/fantasy items that are being pushed into the collecting by many vendors , not just mr gottlieb he is just one of many vendors whose offerings are discussed . if you take the time to read the posts on site you can confirm this for yourself . if my membership of the delos project is a problem for some , so be it . our only object is to expose the selling of fakes / fantasy items .how can this harm the hobby ? any dealer who wants to mount a defence on any item of his highlighted on the delos project only has to register and take part in the debate and put forward his views as to why it is real ,ie facts , period documentation ,proven research . not florid descriptive prose with no basic in fact . the so-called birdshead dagger being a case in point . this item was the subject of a long running thread here , it was proven to be a fake by many expert tr edged weapon collectors worldwide , mr gottlieb was informed by mr fj stephens ,a leading expert in fake and reproduction daggers that this item was a fake / fantasy . but continues to try hawk it to the community of collectors . it is considered a fake by the vast majority of dagger collectors..fact!
i am a member of the delos/project site and yes i do post on site , i am also a member of other militaria forums. your supposition that i wish to see this thread closed is wrong . i fail to see why locking down of this thread furthers any other sites aims? . on what do you base this assumption ? this thread was started by mr maerz who asked some very valid questions in relation to an item for sale on mr gottliebs site . the thread i agree went off on a tangent , due to herr beine dislike of questions a fact evident from other threads.
if i may make a point with regard to your issues with mr stump , i suggest that a civil discussion on the matter of the munich desk set would be in order . rather then the vile spew sent via e-mail to mr stump re this item .
you state that mr gottliebs customers and clients should be allowed to chime in and defend him , i agree . but the defence seems somewhat lacking . why ?
so far his most vocal defender is herr beine , himself no stranger to having to defend himself over items of a dubious nature so to speak. if herr beine was as fast to point out fake / fantasy / fishy items as he is on spelling mistakes, he with his area of expertise could perhaps do the hobby a service..
this thread was started on the 18/01/2012 by herr maerz , i agree with you this thread should be kept open ,but fail to see where it been open for years .

regards ......pavel

**Ian Hulley** · 01-24-2012, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by Craig Gottlieb View Post

"This seller" is NOT know for selling fakes. Yeah, I get the occasional internet witch-hunt pointed my way. But, I have over 2000 items on my website, and if one complex forgery slips by me, that's not a bad record at all.

The 'Bigfoot' cap eagle discussed here ... http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=567391 was by no means a 'complex forgery' it was glaringly obvious, even I could see it at a single glance. As was the double-decal Luftwaffe helmet from the single-decal batch with the post-war added decal(s) outed on the Helmet Forum here http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=565862 or this belt ... http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=568647. This isn't a witch-hunt but a simple statement of fact, perhaps you may be a 100% legitimate dealer but your quality control leaves a tad to be desired.

Ian

**Thorsten B.** · 01-24-2012, 08:03 AM

Yes - I can and actually do the hobby a service right with this comment!

I sold some cultural items yesterday in the E-stand and stated already in the sales description that I will ship via DHL - this morning I received an E-mail in my postbox - the identical one under which I receive E-mails if any member here in WAF wants to contact me via E-mail!

It was designed as an official E-mail from DHL stating I should open the attached file which would contain important notifications regarding my two parcels I sent with DHL this morning shortly after 09.00 o´clock.

I googled the mentioned "official USA DHL service address" and it turned out to be the newest version of a malware attack - nice try.

Too bad for the attacking individual: I did not send the parcels away yet so for sure this E-mail smelled very fishy.

Infos about an exact identical trojan attack have been discussed here:

http://blog.mxlab.eu/2011/10/27/dhl-...ware-attached/

On the one hand I had to smile and, of course, deleted the E-mail but on the other hand I was not amused about that "part" of the "hobby" either.

Coincidence? -

Is that the hobby you are refering to?

It surely isn´t mine.

IMPORTANT: I am not accusing anyone - I am just stating and sharing facts that happened this morning.

Happy collecting.

**alexanderautogr** · 01-24-2012, 11:51 AM

Pavel -

My error about the age of this thread - I confused it with the Munich desk set thread. Apologies.

Re: Dolos, any website or forum honestly dedicated to exposing fakes, frauds, and those peddling them is to be commended. But when the overwhelming majority of the posts on a website are dedicated solely to bashing one dealer or individual (when there's such a target-rich environment out there), something smells "fishy", as they say.

Now, I'm not defending Mr. Gottlieb or his inventory...I'm not fully qualified to examine every piece, nor do I have the time or desire to do so. But if he has, as he says, two thousand items and only a few turn up "bad", that's a pretty good ratio, I'd say. In my trade, anyone who claims they've never unknowingly sold or offered a fake is a liar. Of course, fake material should be acknowledged as such and immediately destroyed.

As for the desk set, that item has been thoroughly discussed and the case is closed. "Stump's" pathological hatred of Mr. Gottlieb and everything he has touched led him to attack the desk set, me, and my auction. At first I approached the imbeciles "Royster" and "Stump" asking for their proof that the piece was not authentic. I was soon barraged with endless hate mail, including revolting anti-Semitic content attacking every Jew in the business. In a crazed attempt to have their fellow anti-Semites attack me, they labeled me a Jew as well, although I am as Jewish as a ham and cheese on a roll. I won't reveal here what was transmitted to me most recently...but I haven't heard comments like that since junior high. They even posted details of my father's obituary and recently commented on my Greek ethnicity. These imbeciles obviously possess great knowledge but have clearly become unhinged. I pray for their speedy recovery...heavily medicated in psychiatric lockdown.

And Thorsten - the DHL virus is incredibly common and I would bet that no one here had anything to do with your receiving that email. I must receive five of those emails every week. Always look at the attachments - if the attachment has a ".zip" extension, never open it.

**speedytop** · 01-24-2012, 02:00 PM

Hi,

once more, I prefer factual comments, see Post 53.

As addition:

It was not usual, to write: "6.Kl.A."
Normally it was written as: "Kl. 6a"

Looking at the text, we can find some anomalies:

1. This should be the original text, it must not be a Heinrich.

2. It is very unusual, to find here three different scripts: Sütterlin (red), Kurrent (blue) and something like Latin script (Druckbuchstabe).

And it is definitely not usual, to close the name Heinrich with a dot.
The "A" could be with a dot too: definitely unusual.

3. The "h" in the name Heinrich is different to the "h" in the original text.

Uwe

**fritztk** · 01-24-2012, 02:09 PM

book

Originally posted by speedytop View Post

Hi,

once more, I prefer factual comments, see Post 53.

As addition:

It was not usual, to write: "6.Kl.A."
Normally it was written as: "Kl. 6a"

Looking at the text, we can find some anomalies:

1. This should be the original text, it must not be a Heinrich.

2. It is very unusual, to find here three different scripts: Sütterlin (red), Kurrent (blue) and something like Latin script (Druckbuchstabe).

And it is definitely not usual, to close the name Heinrich with a dot.
The "A" could be with a dot too: drfinitely unusual.

3. The "h" in the name Heinrich is different to the "h" in the original text.

Uwe

Thanks Uwe, I would say another pointer to this undoubtedly being wrong
Regards
Fraser

**Thorsten B.** · 01-24-2012, 02:18 PM

Don´t complicate these things, it is much easier:

"Algebraheft
Graphische Darstellung"

- has been written by one individual.

EVERYTHING else has been written by a different individual - maybe even at a total different time.

That can be professionally detected without any doubt - but therefore you need the piece in question in hand.

And therefore you will probably have to buy it.

**PAUL.H** · 01-24-2012, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by speedytop View Post

Hi,

once more, I prefer factual comments, see Post 53.

As addition:

It was not usual, to write: "6.Kl.A."
Normally it was written as: "Kl. 6a"

Looking at the text, we can find some anomalies:

1. This should be the original text, it must not be a Heinrich.

2. It is very unusual, to find here three different scripts: Sütterlin (red), Kurrent (blue) and something like Latin script (Druckbuchstabe).

And it is definitely not usual, to close the name Heinrich with a dot.
The "A" could be with a dot too: drfinitely unusual.

3. The "h" in the name Heinrich is different to the "h" in the original text.

Uwe

hi uwe
thanks , very informative post .
i think we can say it puts the last nail in this items coffin.
i thought it was as some would "" fishy "" with two different scripts .
but with three scripts as you clearly show , no logical way to explain that.
apart from the obvious , fake !
regards .....pavel

**fritztk** · 01-24-2012, 02:47 PM

book

I am SURE Craig being an honourable, knowledgeable dealer
Will remove this item asap if he hasn't already
Regards
Fraser

**PAUL.H** · 01-24-2012, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by fritztk View Post

I am SURE Craig being an honourable, knowledgeable dealer
Will remove this item asap if he hasn't already
Regards
Fraser

one would presume so !
with the evidence presented ,the case is proven as the procurator fiscal would say.
regards ......pavel......

**Bill D.** · 01-24-2012, 04:21 PM

On the one hand I had to smile and, of course, deleted the E-mail but on the other hand I was not amused about that "part" of the "hobby" either.

I have received that same email and I have never offered to ship anything by DHL. I have also received similar emails regarding "shipments" (that I did not make) from Fed Ex, UPS, and UPS. It is a very common tactic. The criminals know that if they send out thousands of such emails there will be at least a few people who recently used one of those services and who may be fooled into opening the email.

Anything is possible, but coincidences do occur. The scammers count on that.

**Thorsten B.** · 01-24-2012, 05:30 PM

I never received anything like this before - never ever.

And I am sure it will never ever happen again.

**Hoss** · 01-24-2012, 06:26 PM

Isn't this an early Himmler sig?

Eric

Attached Files

heinhimmbooks04.jpg (37.9 KB, 184 views)

**alexanderautogr** · 01-24-2012, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by Hoss View Post

Isn't this an early Himmler sig?

Eric

Absolutely, positively, it IS Himmler's signature, and I've seen about 1,000 of them. No doubt about it.

Ignatz Himmler. Runs a bodega at 123rd and York. Great bagels and salsa.

Announcement

Himmler's School Booklet

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Users Viewing this Thread