Announcement

**sgstandard** · 11-04-2010, 10:44 AM

Shirt

Can we see closeups of the aiguilette?

**sgstandard** · 11-04-2010, 01:06 PM

sHOULDERBOARD

Here's the same rank to compare..

Attached Files

**blackheart0866** · 11-04-2010, 03:46 PM

Pics of aiguilette.

Attached Files

**sgstandard** · 11-04-2010, 04:36 PM

Shirts

I can't tell if the aiguilette is white or silver - may be OK. IMO, I'm NOT convinced that the Staff red and white collar piping is authentic. Looks too shiny, more like modern materials. The Staff tab piping - I don't know. (Usually made of 4 strands, but not always) The Naval-SA tab piping looks like it may be original, but again with the non-standard piping on the Naval-SA collar. I COULD be off base, and everything could be OK - but not shirts I would buy.

**blackheart0866** · 11-04-2010, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by sgstandard View Post

I can't tell if the aiguilette is white or silver - may be OK. IMO, I'm NOT convinced that the Staff red and white collar piping is authentic. Looks too shiny, more like modern materials. The Staff tab piping - I don't know. (Usually made of 4 strands, but not always) The Naval-SA tab piping looks like it may be original, but again with the non-standard piping on the Naval-SA collar. I COULD be off base, and everything could be OK - but not shirts I would buy.

The red/white piping is not shinny at all, Its the camera flash, I will try and take pics with no flash this evening and post more pics.

I have had two well know collectors look at these, and they both have said they see no issues with these at all.

The aiguilette is of red, and shiny white, and the same with that, They have said they have no issues with it, every thread that is used on this pass' black light testing, and all stitch on it is the same as my other brownshirts i own.

I love both of these shirts, and very happy with them both.

The shoulder boards are correct, as well as the collar tabs, and the buttons down to the belt hooks, One of my shirts has a beautiful SA RZM sewn in tag, and the real nice BOBI belt ramp set up.

Im surprised that no one has really commented the DER STADHLER sleeve diamond on it.

I will post pics of these later on tonight also.

Thanks everyone, as i appreciate any, and all input on these..

**sgstandard** · 11-04-2010, 06:52 PM

Shirts

Flash could explain the shininess. Please don't take offense over negative comments. These are just observations, and can always be either accepted or rejected. Members are on HIGH ALERT since some rare SA shirts have been popping up lately that are highly questionable. MANY SA shirts you find have been monkeyed with, often with poor results. I feel it is a responsibility to point out what the SA regulations actually were, so you can be the judge. We all know that regulations were not ALWAYS followed, of course, but when something is non-regulation, red flags are immediately raised. The white/red aiguilette may be completely authentic, but is incorrect for Staff. Could the guy have worn the wrong color aiguilette? Of course he could have, but unlikely. Since METAL Gruppe letters denote that he was the Commanding Officer, why would he wear an Adjutant's Aiguilette? See my point? Like I said, that doesn't mean it isn't completely stone original, but it doesn't mean it is, either. Also remember that SA Jr. officer's shirts are very rare, and thus, encourage more scrutiny.

**blackheart0866** · 11-04-2010, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by sgstandard View Post

Flash could explain the shininess. Please don't take offense over negative comments. These are just observations, and can always be either accepted or rejected. Members are on HIGH ALERT since some rare SA shirts have been popping up lately that are highly questionable. MANY SA shirts you find have been monkeyed with, often with poor results. I feel it is a responsibility to point out what the SA regulations actually were, so you can be the judge. We all know that regulations were not ALWAYS followed, of course, but when something is non-regulation, red flags are immediately raised. The white/red aiguilette may be completely authentic, but is incorrect for Staff. Could the guy have worn the wrong color aiguilette? Of course he could have, but unlikely. Since METAL Gruppe letters denote that he was the Commanding Officer, why would he wear an Adjutant's Aiguilette? See my point? Like I said, that doesn't mean it isn't completely stone original, but it doesn't mean it is, either. Also remember that SA Jr. officer's shirts are very rare, and thus, encourage more scrutiny.

Ohh, I understand, but like here in the states, since we seem to be having more, and more WW2 Vets passing away, and relatives are finding these items tucked away, I have found items that way.

I'm working on a party flag that was captured by an US service members, he took it from Dachau, and i have the documentation to prove, right up to his obit saying he help liberate Dachau.

This flag looks brand new, all because it sat wrapped up in brown heavy paper inside a oak chest since he got home from Europe, the same vets son has sold off the PP pistols, an Luftwaffe helmet, and other items.

What i had someone tell me on the HO brownshirt, that he could have been with a different SA sturm, got promoted, and was already issued / authorized the aiguilette to wear.

As when i was in the army, when i transferred out from i was still authorized my Ranger tab to wear, I was no longer in a combat arms MOS, but i still earned the right to wear it, so i did.

Sure it could have been added over the years, And i do respect what other experts have to say on these items, as I will never stop learning these items.

I do feel that everything else on the SA HO brownshirt to be all original to the shirt.

Thanks

**sgstandard** · 11-05-2010, 10:17 AM

Shirt

Look at the thread that attaches the collar piping and the collar tabs to the shirts to see if it looks like period thread. Most period thread is very distinctive in appearance. I will try to post a nice closeup soon of the thread on my shirt piping to show those unfamiliar with it's appearance. It has a distinctive twist, and is often a darker grey. Not always, of course.

**blackheart0866** · 11-05-2010, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by sgstandard View Post

Look at the thread that attaches the collar piping and the collar tabs to the shirts to see if it looks like period thread. Most period thread is very distinctive in appearance. I will try to post a nice closeup soon of the thread on my shirt piping to show those unfamiliar with it's appearance. It has a distinctive twist, and is often a darker grey. Not always, of course.

The thread that attaches the cord to the collar is the same as the other ones i own, in the same manner, and style.

Thanks

**wewelsburg** · 11-05-2010, 09:13 PM

Ok front pics of teh tabs dont help me,I need the reverse of teh collar to see how teh tabs are stitched,did you burn test the threads?And you havent said if these were from the seller I named,if they are they are in NO WAY good.If not....maybe they have ashoy..but im in doubt.Those metal insignia are NOT common,on early as hell SDA stuff yeah they were around,but on 2 shirts from the same batch??dont think so.This seller had ALL metal insig on ALL his shirts,therefore put together not a chance!!The diamond bothers me most,as it is not common,and also one appeared on that sellers brownshirt,this may be it.I have to go through my files he sent me teh photos and on was your Standartenfuhrerwith black tabs,.Again if these are from B Creatif they are not good in my opinion sorry.I wish Erich would chime in here also.
Im not trying to burst your bubble,and sometimes we would rather hope,than return the items,because A.its a hassle sometimes,but mostly B.because we want them to be good so badly,that we gamble.That gamble keeps we wide eyed at night,and down teh line resale becomes hard as hell...BUT if you sleep well thats your business,and dont plan to resell ok.Good luck,let us know if you indeed bought them from B Creatif,which I believe to be so HE KNEW they were put togethers he wanted OUTRAGEOUS money too for them.We discussed his stuff here recently,even his kepis.He biought a collection and was looking for a "Good Book" on Sa,he hadnt a clue.

**Darin S.** · 11-05-2010, 09:51 PM

This is the Ebay seller that had the Marine SA listed.

http://myworld.ebay.com/bigwaterhead/

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

**blackheart0866** · 11-05-2010, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by wewelsburg View Post

Ok front pics of teh tabs dont help me,I need the reverse of teh collar to see how teh tabs are stitched,did you burn test the threads?And you havent said if these were from the seller I named,if they are they are in NO WAY good.If not....maybe they have ashoy..but im in doubt.Those metal insignia are NOT common,on early as hell SDA stuff yeah they were around,but on 2 shirts from the same batch??dont think so.This seller had ALL metal insig on ALL his shirts,therefore put together not a chance!!The diamond bothers me most,as it is not common,and also one appeared on that sellers brownshirt,this may be it.I have to go through my files he sent me teh photos and on was your Standartenfuhrerwith black tabs,.Again if these are from B Creatif they are not good in my opinion sorry.I wish Erich would chime in here also.
Im not trying to burst your bubble,and sometimes we would rather hope,than return the items,because A.its a hassle sometimes,but mostly B.because we want them to be good so badly,that we gamble.That gamble keeps we wide eyed at night,and down teh line resale becomes hard as hell...BUT if you sleep well thats your business,and dont plan to resell ok.Good luck,let us know if you indeed bought them from B Creatif,which I believe to be so HE KNEW they were put togethers he wanted OUTRAGEOUS money too for them.We discussed his stuff here recently,even his kepis.He biought a collection and was looking for a "Good Book" on Sa,he hadnt a clue.

I have no idea who B Creatif, i bought them from a guy here in the states, from the New Jersey area, and yes he did buy them from a guy over seas.

There is a complete set of SA marine insignia for sale on a well known web site, and its spot on.

Here are the back pics, showing how the tabs, and cord is sewn on, the tabs seem to be hand sewn through the top layer of fabric, and the cord on the two is sewn into the seams of the collar, and here are the sewn in RZM tags on them.

The Der Stahlhelm sleeve diamond is mentioned in a thread in these forums, I was told that officers wore this model, and enlisted wore an embroided type sleeve diamond;

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?p=4291863

Pics;

Attached Files

**blackheart0866** · 11-05-2010, 10:04 PM

more pics

Attached Files

**blackheart0866** · 11-05-2010, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by blackheart0866 View Post

more pics

more pics ...

Attached Files

**blackheart0866** · 11-05-2010, 10:09 PM

and two more pics.

The top one is sewn onto the back pocket of the SA breeches, and the other one is sewn into the inside right side of the SA Brownshirt.

These came from the same guy.

Thanks

Attached Files

Announcement

SA Brownshirts for viewing..

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Users Viewing this Thread