A couple of Cultural items

[Thorsten B.]

Michael,

Nobody forces you to change your behaviour.

If a student does not want to learn then the university is just the wrong place for him and he is not really a student.

Finally we are all students here in the WAF forum and our teacher is represented by this immense gathered pool of many, many years of collecting experiences - one is specialized on badges or awards and sometimes even only specialized on one special award like the Blutorden, Parteiabzeichen, Eisernes Kreuz, Ritterkreuz to name just a few - but a medal guy has to turn into a document guy when trying to sort out the real deal from faked citations for example.

So he goes to the paperboys and gets help and is able to develope - and to save money!

Due to it´s high interest rate naturally and especially the field of SS collecting is filled up to the roof with crooks, faked items and - as you call them - wolves in WAF member clothing (oh I see - you suddenly changed your sub-title......) which can be identified for example by being here and sucking up all possible shared knowledge and so find out about each personal interests of sharing members and especially their psychological weak points because they want to be sure that they can lure certain individuals with "SS guru" offers into a deal through the back door - and sell them for example faked SS MK boxes!

For these crooks a forum like this is like a lake full of seals and they try to take the backdoor part of being the shark - and they build up a net of collectors by feeding them with some "insider" info to get them addicted and finally control them to make sure that their backdoor deals - their ONLY real goal - keep secret and can continue. Weak collectors always hungry for infos are their most fruitful victims. And if someone comes along and smells the game these victims are used for condemning and finally exstincting this - for them and their criminal agenda - very dangerous individual.

If that individual is strong enough it turns out as a tempest in a teapot...


I can remember very well - and I still have it - that you once sent me a picture of a Sippenwiege (SS family cradle) published with a pic within one of the SS-Leithefte.

Do you remember as well?

And wasn´t the making of these cradles - because they represent SS cultural key objects - indeed controlled by the SS??

Chest making in general was never controlled by the SS and we all know that - the point is you still try to make fun of me and that is your only "argument" and it turns out to be a very weak one.

[Thorsten B.]

There were private firms being politically on the same road as Himmler and the SS, for example Gahr since Otto and Karolina Gahr belonged to the very essence of NSDAP party membership AND were very skillful jewelers they were the ideal business, cultural partners and co-workers for Himmler and his SS and within their field also teachers and advicers for them.

And definitely Gahr pieces were not for everybody and for receiving certain pieces - if not most - of their production range one had indeed to show his SS Ausweis.

And sometimes - regarding the Ehrenring - even that was not enough since the Ehrenring was priceless. That was the SS jewelry pice for the SS-man.

I also believe that pieces for honouring the SS-woman as the mother (although the Mutterbrosche was never fully introduced) or as a wedding present were only available for SS-members.

So there were the private ones in contract with the SS - like all the Allach artists for example or the craftsmen working as DHW contract partners.

And by manufacturing SS cultural pieces by the order of the SS as a business partner they - directly or indirectly which does not really matter - indeed for example produced certain chests controlled by the SS.

Or do you really believe that Karolina Gahr - just because she and her jewelers in contract with her - could sell Ehrenringe through the backdoor to anybody?

Not even to SS-members.

The SS controlled exactly where their special cultural objects went and were they should and did not move!

Again - not for everybody.

[Thorsten B.]

And now tell me:

Where is my "howler" as you suggest?

[Capt. R]

The ss kept strict control over its products to include allach. I think it is reasonable to assume that they may have done the same with DHW to some extent. Hardly any government or industry within the Reich was not touched in some way by the ever present ss.

Here is my Ura Linda Chronik (notice the dust-jacket) watching over my ss cask. My cabinet is getting too crowded!

[PMan]

Dhw?

The ss kept strict control over its products to include allach. I think it is reasonable to assume that they may have done the same with DHW to some extent. Hardly any government or industry within the Reich was not touched in some way by the ever present ss.

Here is my Ura Linda Chronik (notice the dust-jacket) watching over my ss cask. My cabinet is getting too crowded!

I am sorry to ask, but what is DHW?

Thank you, Peter

[Capt. R]

Deutsche HeimatWerk

http://www.badw.de/aktuell/akademie_...staendecke.pdf

[Michael Fay]

Michael,

Nobody forces you to change your behaviour.

If a student does not want to learn then the university is just the wrong place for him and he is not really a student.

Finally we are all students here in the WAF forum and our teacher is represented by this immense gathered pool of many, many years of collecting experiences - one is specialized on badges or awards and sometimes even only specialized on one special award like the Blutorden, Parteiabzeichen, Eisernes Kreuz, Ritterkreuz to name just a few - but a medal guy has to turn into a document guy when trying to sort out the real deal from faked citations for example.

So he goes to the paperboys and gets help and is able to develope - and to save money!

Due to it´s high interest rate naturally and especially the field of SS collecting is filled up to the roof with crooks, faked items and - as you call them - wolves in WAF member clothing (oh I see - you suddenly changed your sub-title......) which can be identified for example by being here and sucking up all possible shared knowledge and so find out about each personal interests of sharing members and especially their psychological weak points because they want to be sure that they can lure certain individuals with "SS guru" offers into a deal through the back door - and sell them for example faked SS MK boxes!

For these crooks a forum like this is like a lake full of seals and they try to take the backdoor part of being the shark - and they build up a net of collectors by feeding them with some "insider" info to get them addicted and finally control them to make sure that their backdoor deals - their ONLY real goal - keep secret and can continue. Weak collectors always hungry for infos are their most fruitful victims. And if someone comes along and smells the game these victims are used for condemning and finally exstincting this - for them and their criminal agenda - very dangerous individual.

If that individual is strong enough it turns out as a tempest in a teapot...


I can remember very well - and I still have it - that you once sent me a picture of a Sippenwiege (SS family cradle) published with a pic within one of the SS-Leithefte.

Do you remember as well?

And wasn´t the making of these cradles - because they represent SS cultural key objects - indeed controlled by the SS??

Chest making in general was never controlled by the SS and we all know that - the point is you still try to make fun of me and that is your only "argument" and it turns out to be a very weak one.

The SS did not control all wood objects made in Germany.
Thats it.

One rule of thumb:
is this person argueing a point trying to sell such wood items ?
or is this person argueing a point selling nothing?

I am selling nothing.

[Michael Fay]

The ss kept strict control over its products to include allach. I think it is reasonable to assume that they may have done the same with DHW to some extent. Hardly any government or industry within the Reich was not touched in some way by the ever present ss.

Here is my Ura Linda Chronik (notice the dust-jacket) watching over my ss cask. My cabinet is getting too crowded!

Show me the regulations that restricted German wood workers from making any item at all.
Once you get into chests...this is simply too generic and already a long standing tradition of making including with runes on them way before SS in existence. It goes back centuries! I see no way to argue a familie chest is absolutly from the SS without further evidence as stated previously by me and others ad nauseum .

P.S. nice dust jacket

[Capt. R]

all I am saying is that the ss was likely involved in DHW due to their over-reaching power in most industries. I was not being specific as to the chest in any way. If you re-read my post, this is all I was saying and I am not taking any side - I am just stating my opinion.

[Thorsten B.]

"The SS did not control all wood objects made in Germany.
Thats it."


Nobody said so - that´s it.


You still refuse to pay attention - along with a smooth share of your thoughts and opinions - regarding the cultural objects in specific and detail - I did so as well as Don and I absolutely agree with his expressed opinion.

[Michael Fay]

all I am saying is that the ss was likely involved in DHW due to their over-reaching power in most industries. I was not being specific as to the chest in any way. If you re-read my post, this is all I was saying and I am not taking any side - I am just stating my opinion.

I dont see it as taking a side.
I dont see the DHW as being applicable to this "debate" as they did not own the sole rights to making family chests in Germany.
Nor would Himmler have wanted it that way.

[Michael Fay]

"The SS did not control all wood objects made in Germany.
Thats it."


Nobody said so - that´s it.


You still refuse to pay attention - along with a smooth share of your thoughts and opinions - regarding the cultural objects in specific and detail - I did so as well as Don and I absolutely agree with his expressed opinion.

Actually, yes I paid attention and never forgot that was your original arguement when I dared to point out these Family Chests are not all SS -just because you put the name Jul on them.

By the way, do you remeber claiming the term "Jul" was proof somthing was SS?
Or have you backed away from that claim too?
I have paid exceedingly good attention to your original false claims.

By the way, do you have one for sale?

[Thorsten B.]

"I dont see the DHW as being applicable to this "debate" as they did not own the sole rights to making family chests in Germany."

Once again:

Nobody said so.

And regarding what Himmler wanted and what he did not want is a delicate matter, especially in regards to the time after the war as one can for example read in a letter to the "Burghauptmann" / commander of Wewelsburg castle in a later stage of the war in which Himmler defined that after the war he can only imagine calling the Wewelsburg "Reichshaus der Gruppenführer" and that - as he himself stated in this letter - was just a guess, an unfinished idea expressed by himself - at that time.

A few months he would have probably mulled it over again and would have come to another result - but he could not even focus on that theme - which was oh so nice and important for him! - anymore, he just had no time...

[JR.]

Michael, There is an infamous dealer that shows up at every SOS and MAX show with these one off wood carved, chests, doors, chairs etc. He also introduced all of the "SS celebrity" engraved cuff links into the US. Many know of him well..............

[Michael Fay]

"I dont see the DHW as being applicable to this "debate" as they did not own the sole rights to making family chests in Germany."

Once again:

Nobody said so.

And regarding what Himmler wanted and what he did not want is a delicate matter, especially in regards to the time after the war as one can for example read in a letter to the "Burghauptmann" / commander of Wewelsburg castle in a later stage of the war in which Himmler defined that after the war he can only imagine calling the Wewelsburg "Reichshaus der Gruppenführer" and that - as he himself stated in this letter - was just a guess, an unfinished idea expressed by himself - at that time.

A few months he would have probably mulled it over again and would have come to another result - but he could not even focus on that theme - which was oh so nice and important for him! - anymore, he just had no time...

Sorry Thorsten, it was you who brought up the DHW as proof of SS somhow being involved in any wood item you felt like claiming was SS.

As for Himmler wants: nothing "delicate" about his desire for German craftsman to create volkische and traditional wood items.

you do seem to loose attention and wander into unrelated things ...