A couple of Cultural items

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Thorsten,

I will only respond once to you as I personally believe it to be wiser to discuss economics with a communist than anything with you.

Please show me where it is written in German period law that carpenters where not allowed to produce items with runic symbols on them.

Furthermore, please show me where it is written that only DHW could produce truncs and carpenters could not.

I am pretty sure this was not the case. This I think will be considered by most as a realistic assumption. The burden of proof therefore is on you and not on me. It is always much harder to prove that something does not exist than it is to prove that it does. That is why people continue to believe in God. No offense to those of a religeous persuasion.

So if carpenters were allowed to produce runic truncs, how reasonable do you think it would be that they did so only for members of the SS - who according to you even had to show them their papers - and not for others willing to pay? Please except the fact there was a huge market for Nazi stuff in Germany that was not sanctioned. Just think of all those - in my opinion tacky - SS and skull rings, Swastika lanterns, Swastika Christmas ornaments and so on and so on that were produced commercially. Anyone who has period magazines and news papers will know this to be true.

Like I said just a one time respons to you.

Cheers, W

[Thorsten B.]

Got your message!

To make it short:

You cannot back up anything you claimed - especially against me in person and the things I offer! - and try to somehow hide that poor show behind:

"Like I said just a one time respons to you."

Thanks for summarizing your agenda!

I did not expect anything else from you - and I don´t expect anything else from Michael and Seiler.



You guys can´t even talk the talk - not even considering walking the walk.

[Thorsten B.]

Here is my message:

.

[Naval Enigma]

Okay.

This is a great thread and there is really nowhere else to go for one interested in SS cultural items. I really feel ground is being broken here. I hope our quest for knowledge is not thwarted by animosity.

Mr. Fay -- I understand you have a dispute with Thorston. You clearly have an incredible trove of primary resources. Is there any way you could share your thoughts on SS cultural artifacts and their meaning as you see it? I would love to share in your research and thoughts.

Also, what specific items has Thorston offered up that you believe are not Third Reich or SS items?

Can we all agree that the "Blut and Boden" tellers and the "Honor the soil" wedding plates are Third Reich? Additionally are not the Edda plates also of the era? Note I am not saying SS, but Third Reich.

Part of the problem may be definition -- "Only SS" versus "predominately SS" or "germane to the SS."

Obviously any given sippentruhe is not automatically an SS item. Thorston is positing that there are versions, or "brands" of the sippentruhe that are exclusively SS -- These being the DHW versions ordered for the family corner as dictated by the Weitzel book. He should be allowed to make a case for that. Obviously a non-SS member could go to any craftsman and order a sippentruhe.

Could a non SS member order a sippentruhe from DHW? I do not know. Again, are all family chests SS? No. Of course not.

I really want to learn more of the cultural pieces, as Himmler et al were doing no less than attempting to change the very foundation of European civilization. There is much we can learn today of the dangers of "religious tinkering." I value ALL knowledge here and ALL opinions.

Thorston -- Please don't let this thread crash like two hawks locked in combat spiraling out of the sky. I can only beseech you to not respond to any personal affronts. Please continue to litigate your case for the meaning and context of these cultural pieces. By nature this territory is a land of mirrors and shadows. Unfortunately plates and trunks are not festooned with RZM tags or LDO numbers.

Any collector venturing into this territory must make peace with the artifacts, place them in a broader context. I do not read German or have access to much of the original printed matter and am thereby dependent on others more versed to provide me with grist to MAKE MY OWN DECISIONS.

Alright, that was my feeble attempt at peacemaking. Carry on.

[PMan]

Okay.

#1. Also, what specific items has Thorston offered up that you believe are not Third Reich or SS items?

#2. Thorston -- Please don't let this thread crash like two hawks locked in combat spiraling out of the sky. I can only beseech you to not respond to any personal affronts.

#3. Alright, that was my feeble attempt at peacemaking. Carry on.

Hello Naval Engima,
Your question #1 above validates your comment # 3.
Peter

[Thorsten B.]

Learning by experience

OK - here is a chest I pulled out of the german woodwork (this time the term really matches the matter ).

Since we ALL love to learn and enjoy you are invited to share your thoughts regarding this historical object.

Sorry - the quality of my shots is galaxies away from the quality of the piece itself - but it´s weekend and we want to enjoy and discuss - NOW!

(International copyright protects pics and comments of everybody here)

Now tell me - what do you see and what can you identify?

[PBR]

And offcourse oak family chest were made from the 17 century upon now but when swastikas and runes or runic carvings appear is is clearly made in the third reich.

Are you sure of this?
Sonnenrad and runes were carved into wood things and graves long before the TR, and they still are.

[Naval Enigma]

Hello Naval Engima,
Your question #1 above validates your comment # 3.
Peter

Drats! You have exposed my evil plot to throw gas on the flame!

[Thorsten B.]

More details of the headline:

[Thorsten B.]

The couple:

[Thorsten B.]

1941 - in this year the Third Reich was climbing up to it´s zenith .

They were on the way reaching their political and ideological goals - ready to rule!

The fall of Russia (Russia!) seemed to be just a matter of some more ambushes.

From this perspective the owners had every imaginable reason to invest their money in this cultural beauty!

[Thorsten B.]

The two pillars left and right...

...decorated with oak - THE german tree which is dure and good for 1000 years.

Already the pagan germanic tribes honoured this tree as a religious symbol and strong object of nature.

The white jumping horse of Widukind, the old majestic oak trees telling stories they witnessed many centuries ago, the Irminsul - Westphalia, the heart of Germania!

[PMan]

Drats! You have exposed my evil plot to throw gas on the flame!

[Thorsten B.]

Three spiked blades - grain - bringing in the gifts of mother earth - FOOD!

The farmer as the nourisher of the nation and care-taker - honour the clod that nourishes us.

FOOD! - Finally, after the "roaring twenties" and the downfall of an Empire.

FOOD! - Daily bread and work for everybody accepting the rules of natures.

(No bread for those not earning it with their hands working for a living.)

Three blades: Werden - Sein - Vergehen = To grow - to be - to die.

The endless circle of life, of eternity.

FOOD! - In eternity! (for the germans, not for everybody...)

[Thorsten B.]

When the SS built up the Sachsenhain for commemorating and remembering the 4500 Saxons decaptivated by the order of the christian king Karl der Grosse (Charlemagne) because they did not want to accept the rules of the new religion and kept on praying to their natural goods like Wotan, Thor and especially Saxnoth and honoured them by special selected areas of land - a spring shrine, a piece of meadow, of morass or a piece of forest.

Two saxonian half-timbered houses were re-erected and restored by members of the RAD and scientists of the Ahnenerbe were responsible for their outer appearance and decoration with runic symbols - mainly SS-Sturmbannführer and SS-scientist Karl Theodor Weigel was responsible for that field of re-creation of very old germanic symbols, he wrote several books published in the Nordland-Verlag and in these books the use of the mill as a symbol is explained as well.

One of them was the mill as a symbol of bread and so luck and richness (what they actually meant with richness was living a life without hunger due to natural desasters or just bad weather with bad or no harvest!) for the farmer - Food!