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**Minnesinger** · 03-29-2012, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by Steve T View Post

Daniel,

Your last paragraph is as wrong as your second.

So it had three doors originally? You have no way of knowing that. It's more likely it had doors added in my opinion, to make it a fit for purpose utility piece post war, but note I'm not stating as factual truth as you claim with respect to your statement of it having three doors originally.

What sits there I have little doubt is a genuine DHW piece, whether the door goes one way or the other. You will note the ironware is correctly positioned.

Are you being courteous or is using my name in this thread a master suppression technique?

No I couldn't know that, but it makes more sense in my opinion given it's previous use. Why would you add doors to it if you also fit mirrors inside that would hide them? The bottom part is much thicker than in the catalog and the top part not as wide. While I can see it being shortened for esthetic reasons I doubt they would grind down the the corners. My reason for discarding the other pieces in the series of photos is based purely on this one. I see very little resemblance between it and DHW #90 and I don't buy in to the "regional differences" until someone, or myself, dig up some period proof of this.

**Thorsten B.** · 03-29-2012, 08:09 PM

Have you ever personally seen and examined ANY kind of DHW furniture pieces??

I have.

**Steve T** · 03-29-2012, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by Minnesinger View Post

Are you being courteous or is using my name in this thread a master suppression technique?

No I couldn't know that, but it makes more sense in my opinion given it's previous use. Why would you add doors to it if you also fit mirrors inside that would hide them? The bottom part is much thicker than in the catalog and the top part not as wide. While I can see it being shortened for esthetic reasons I doubt they would grind down the the corners. My reason for discarding the other pieces in the series of photos is based purely on this one. I see very little resemblance between it and DHW #90 and I don't buy in to the "regional differences" until someone, or myself, dig up some period proof of this.

Master suppression technique of course

No, you have emailed me so I know you're Daniel.

As well differences in pieces the exact similarities are just as important, if not more. Yes, there are differences in the wood. In this case the hardware is important to look at for this piece has the optional extra deluxe hardware. The locks and the hinges are expensive hand worked iron, if you made them today they would be very expensive. The locks are a work of art in metal, highly decorated, features on them are purely decorative, they even have the form iron cross on them, absolutely not needed for function but its there.

**Minnesinger** · 03-29-2012, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by Steve T View Post

Master suppression technique of course

No, you have emailed me so I know you're Daniel.

As well differences in pieces the exact similarities are just as important, if not more. Yes, there are differences in the wood. In this case the hardware is important to look at for this piece has the optional extra deluxe hardware. The locks and the hinges are expensive hand worked iron, if you made them today they would be very expensive. The locks are a work of art in metal, highly decorated, features on them are purely decorative, they even have the form iron cross on them, absolutely not needed for function but its there.

I know you knew who I was but I just got a bit surprised since I can't recall you ever doing that when quoting me before.

I will have to take your word for it as I only seen the one photo and not the lock. As for the beschläge they are expensive but comes in all shapes and sizes. It would boil down to how much you could sell it for to a collector if you said it was a DHW product. Is €150 on ornate langband a good investment? I haven't seen what the asking price on these things are.

**Thorsten B.** · 03-29-2012, 08:47 PM

More SS culture!

You collect Reichsnährstand - eat this:

Yes, it´s real.

No, it´s not for sale.

But it might make you jealous again so take care.

Attached Files

DSC01487.JPG (103.6 KB, 259 views)

**Minnesinger** · 03-29-2012, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post

You collect Reichsnährstand - eat this:

Yes, it´s real.

No, it´s not for sale.

But it might make you jealous again so take care.

I believe I have complimented those spirals before, but thanks for the new pic.

**Thorsten B.** · 03-29-2012, 09:00 PM

Now that sounds more normal and serious.

You seem to rebuild credibility again - good for you.

**Minnesinger** · 03-29-2012, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post

Now that sounds more normal and serious.

You seem to rebuild credibility again - good for you.

Like I've said before, I can give credit where it's due. GI has some good things too but that doesn't mean I'll refrain from pointing finger at the bad when they come up, and in my opinion you have bad pieces too.

**Minnesinger** · 03-29-2012, 10:06 PM

I have a little pig myself.

**Gaspare** · 03-29-2012, 10:29 PM

I've seen some of these I've really liked,,but as mentioned,,,even if you spot the pattern in a period photo it still isn't provenance.. I guess its something you like, want, and have some faith in..

The plate in question,,I'm not a specialist or even a collector of them, but from the photos have an opinion..

I think the patina concern might be the lighting [?],,in a couple photos it appears darker and actually looks a little better.
Problems,, What doesn't seem right to me is,,the center emblem is very nicely done,,the dedication around the edge doesn't seem to match in quality..The E and the S on the left [LANDESBAUERNSCHAFT] is horrible..

I think the most telling are the photos on post #2249. Sword, questionable,,and time paradox or not the wheat ear shows an added embellishment for sure..
Whatever,,IF the owner is happy with it what can be better..........

**Capt. R** · 03-29-2012, 10:46 PM

oh my, my! I am laughing my a$$$ off right now! Thanks for the cheap entertainment chaps! What a hilarious exchange this has been.

I cannot believe someone would actually see this kind of evidence and still go through with a purchase at this point in time! Especially when viewed in the light of past discussions.

well, well, there is that little chest that Michael never received! So that is where it ended up - as a footstool for swine. Is that the type of reverence you have for Germanic culture -to allow swine to park their ample ham-hocks upon it?

Here is the kicker...the hypocrisy involved in this next linked thread is really over the top. If Thorsten had offered it for sale, can you imagine the pseudo-vetting it would receive?
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=1#post5210300

OK, Thorsten I have to stop now and thank you for the entertainment at least! too funny.

**Michael Fay** · 03-29-2012, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by Steve T View Post

Master suppression technique of course

No, you have emailed me so I know you're Daniel.

As well differences in pieces the exact similarities are just as important, if not more. Yes, there are differences in the wood. In this case the hardware is important to look at for this piece has the optional extra deluxe hardware. The locks and the hinges are expensive hand worked iron, if you made them today they would be very expensive. The locks are a work of art in metal, highly decorated, features on them are purely decorative, they even have the form iron cross on them, absolutely not needed for function but its there.

an iron cross does not prove authenticity-that symbol has spanned a good bit of time. ANd can be faked, of course.
And I am suspicious of all this undocumented talk of faking things being too expensive. Same thing used to be claimed by thorsten about wooden plates 3 years ago here on WAF.

And why not cannibalization of old bits of cabinetry and furniture from the past being put on old wood and then have rune and spirals carved on?

Of course this can be done in some evil cabinetry shop of fakester designs-like this little shop of thorstons

Attached Files

Thorsten's 1740 post wood working tools.jpg (91.1 KB, 362 views)

**Michael Fay** · 03-29-2012, 11:50 PM

thorston and keeping info from collectors

Originally posted by Minnesinger View Post

Whats destroying the hobby is ideas like this one about a wandteppich you passed on to me in a private message:

Quote:
Hello Minnesinger,

I am refering to the one visable in the Weitzel book behind the Jul chest.

It would be awesome if they could reproduce that pattern.

But I think it would not be so intelligent to do it openly within the thread since someone could inform the manufactury in Meldorf due to this published thoughts/discussion that that pattern is "evil" - and then they would never do the job.

I guess you can understand what I want to say, right?

Gruss,

Thorsten

In light of certain events I kind of feel obligated to tell them just how evil it is to make sure they don't start coming out of the "woodworks" left and right.

.

Well well well,
Thorston, so you were gleefully hoping for an SS familie documented fake rug to come out without any one on WAF knowing about Meldorf?
Your not wanting this mentioned on WAF seems more to keep your buyers and your critiques ignorant.

But you had a good run selling fake modern rugs as DHW and SS didnt you.

**maestro** · 03-30-2012, 02:20 AM

is this close to what the disagreement is?

Attached Files

Untitled.jpg (57.0 KB, 340 views)

**Steve T** · 03-30-2012, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by Michael Fay View Post

an iron cross does not prove authenticity-that symbol has spanned a good bit of time. ANd can be faked, of course.
And I am suspicious of all this undocumented talk of faking things being too expensive. Same thing used to be claimed by thorsten about wooden plates 3 years ago here on WAF.

And why not cannibalization of old bits of cabinetry and furniture from the past being put on old wood and then have rune and spirals carved on?

Of course this can be done in some evil cabinetry shop of fakester designs-like this little shop of thorstons

No, an iron cross does not make something authentic. My point to Daniel was one needs to look at all this information, not just differences, that's all.

Yes, of course there is the possibility someone could build furniture from parts but you write as if this is a true fact, and further, you say Thorsten has a workshop engaged in such activity. What I don't see anywhere is proof that this is the case though you write as if it is.

I know for a fact that one item you have told us that Thorsten has carved runes on is the chest he recently showed, the one with the carved lady and four runes is not true though you write as if it is true. I have seen the pictures of that chest from the previous owner and all four runes are on the piece, prior to Thorsten's ownership. You have condemned this piece without any evidence, only your belief that Thorsten is engaged in forgery with a workshop. Express an opinion sure, but don't condemn it if you don't know what you believe is true.

Again, you think this plate with Reichsnährstand symbol is faked with your presented evidence hinging on some detail you cannot see in a picture. This is purely your interpretation of an image. Fine, you expressed your opinion but that's all it is.

If you believe Thorsten is making plates and furniture and should this be true then the collecting community would surely welcome the exposing of a fake and forgery workshop in Germany. People will applaud your efforts should you be able to show this for a fact but please be more objective, investigate without risking your emotions and personal prejudices influencing your beliefs, do not condemn pieces such as this chest outright just because its your belief Thorsten is a faker.

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