"Mahnmal" monument centerpiece

[Br. James]

Well said, friend John -- couldn't have said it better myself!

Thanks and cheers,

Br. James

[Erich B.]

IMO, unless it's being kept somewhere in secret and venerated as a 'holy Reich relic', the chances of finding the Blood Flag are nearly non-existent. If it was taken out of its probable underground storage for preservation by an ardent party member, it's most likely that it would have been removed from the special pole and carried under a tunic or jacket. Then it would have probably been hidden or buried in a watertight container. If it had been found subsequently by a GI or anyone other than the person or persons who had hidden it, it would look like a damaged and stained party flag with a slightly different construction than other flags. Most citizens would not want to have a party flag laying around at war's end, since it could have been thought to be incriminating (until later when it might have been bartered for needed supplies, a cigarette, etc). There was no shortage of party flags available, most with a better appearance and in better condition which might have been more desirable prizes for a GI. Again, assuming the separation from its unique recognizable pole and pole top (which as far as I know have never surfaced either), its significance would have most likely been unrecognized and there's a better chance it was cut up, its fabric used for repairs or left in a refuse pile or burnt as trash than preserved as a III. Reich icon.
This is just my musing and is not based on any research, reference, or evidence.
Has anyone read the biography of Grimminger? It was available a few years ago but I neglected to buy a copy. I'd be curious to know if the Blood Flag chain of custody and end of the war location were mentioned at all.
Erich

[Military]

IMO, unless it's being kept somewhere in secret and venerated as a 'holy Reich relic', the chances of finding the Blood Flag are nearly non-existent. If it was taken out of its probable underground storage for preservation by an ardent party member, it's most likely that it would have been removed from the special pole and carried under a tunic or jacket. Then it would have probably been hidden or buried in a watertight container. If it had been found subsequently by a GI or anyone other than the person or persons who had hidden it, it would look like a damaged and stained party flag with a slightly different construction than other flags. Most citizens would not want to have a party flag laying around at war's end, since it could have been thought to be incriminating (until later when it might have been bartered for needed supplies, a cigarette, etc). There was no shortage of party flags available, most with a better appearance and in better condition which might have been more desirable prizes for a GI. Again, assuming the separation from its unique recognizable pole and pole top (which as far as I know have never surfaced either), its significance would have most likely been unrecognized and there's a better chance it was cut up, its fabric used for repairs or left in a refuse pile or burnt as trash than preserved as a III. Reich icon.
This is just my musing and is not based on any research, reference, or evidence.
Has anyone read the biography of Grimminger? It was available a few years ago but I neglected to buy a copy. I'd be curious to know if the Blood Flag chain of custody and end of the war location were mentioned at all.
Erich

Hi Erich - just curious, which biography / book are you referring to?

Mil

[Br. James]

Hi Mil,

Apparently this is the book Erich is referring to:

"Der Kornett der Blutfahne. Die Erinnerungen von Jakob Grimminger. Eine Dokumentation." Herausgegeben und mit einer Einleitung versehen von Eric Kaden und Arthur Meyer

Published by Winkelried-Verlag Dresden in 2012. There appear to be a few copies available through the out-of-print booksellers; about US$100.00. As to the possibility that Grimminger 'told all' about the post-war history of the Blood Flag, I would greatly doubt that, because if he had and there was anything to his tale, MUCH MORE would have happened in that regard in our hobby since 2012 -- IMHO, of course!

I fully agree with Erich's thoughts on the location of the Blutfahne -- and what's crucial is summed up in his phrase: "...THE CHANCES of finding the Blood Flag are nearly non-existent." (my emphasis) But I would assume that the banner and it's pole and topper would have been disassembled when stored, perhaps in a specially-made leather carrier, which would have made it much easier to transport than trying to carry the pole and topper as one piece. I think I read somewhere that the DE standards were stored in their own carriers, and the Blood Flag was much more unique and historic than any of the DEs.

Just my two-cents-worth! Cheers, all,

Br. James

[Military]

Thank you, James.

I thought so that that was the book and it's in German.

Mil

[Br. James]

You're certainly welcome, Mil. This book would fall into the same category with Julius Schaub's autobiography, "In Hitlers Schatten" -- that category would be 'Books I'd like to Read in English!'

Cheers, my friend,

Br. James

[Jon Fish]

Yes that’s the book and yes it is in German. In its can be seen Grimmingers blood order , gold party badges and various other bits. Some of which were sold by Thies last year or the year before.
I can’t post images from my copy as obviously that would be a copyright infringement.
The blood order is in a collection and unlikely to come for sale for a while, if and when it does I would very much like to own it.

[Military]

Does anyone know how much was his GBP and BO sold for?

Mil

[dragnet]

Chen,
Point well taken. Mil identifies it perfectly- it is AH who made the NZ mojo work.

It isn’t the fact that the BF somehow consecrated the flags it touched through some supernatural transference. The point is that Hitler made an entire Generation of Germans believe it did, whether it were so or not, and they believed it to be a holy relic, and this belief system changed the course of human history forever.

As a piece of cloth today, it doesn’t transfer anything, any more than the material objects we as collectors own from the NZ era somehow ‘magically transfer’ to us guilt from the crimes of the TR. But tell that to some of the people who see our memorabilia collections. Yikes!

I belive the whole consecration thing was to build a TR ritual, a ritual that people could belive in thus helping in the building of the thousand year Reich

[Jon Fish]

Does anyone know how much was his GBP and BO sold for?

Mil

No, but it’s irrelevant as it’s so long ago.

[Erich B.]

That is indeed the book, which originally sold for less than 20€.
Erich

[Br. James]

"I belive the whole consecration thing was to build a TR ritual, a ritual that people could belive in thus helping in the building of the thousand year Reich"

No doubt about that, dragnet! Cheers,

Br. James

[Volksturmer]

IMO, unless it's being kept somewhere in secret and venerated as a 'holy Reich relic', the chances of finding the Blood Flag are nearly non-existent. If it was taken out of its probable underground storage for preservation by an ardent party member, it's most likely that it would have been removed from the special pole and carried under a tunic or jacket. Then it would have probably been hidden or buried in a watertight container. If it had been found subsequently by a GI or anyone other than the person or persons who had hidden it, it would look like a damaged and stained party flag with a slightly different construction than other flags. Most citizens would not want to have a party flag laying around at war's end, since it could have been thought to be incriminating (until later when it might have been bartered for needed supplies, a cigarette, etc). There was no shortage of party flags available, most with a better appearance and in better condition which might have been more desirable prizes for a GI. Again, assuming the separation from its unique recognizable pole and pole top (which as far as I know have never surfaced either), its significance would have most likely been unrecognized and there's a better chance it was cut up, its fabric used for repairs or left in a refuse pile or burnt as trash than preserved as a III. Reich icon.
Erich

Erich,
I have to agree - there is a huge chance the BF was destroyed. Your argument about the conditions of the TR, and the flag’s humble appearance, are well done, and very convincing.
Dragnet, agree, it was all about making traditions to bind the people!
Erich or Jon,
In the Book about Grimminger, are the photos of his GPBs a small Fuess and large Deschler? Just curious, since, as James kindly shared with us, a small Fuess and large Deschler have turned up elsewhere with his party number. I wonder if they are the same ones as in the book, or more than 2 exist.

[Br. James]

Hi John,

I believe that the original badges which were sent to each new male member of the NSDAP who qualified for the Golden Party Badge were a matched set of Deschler badges. When additional small badges were ordered, either as extras or because the pin plate and the pin itself on the small Deschler GPBs often failed or broke from use, I believe what was sent as a replacement was a Fuess-marked badge. And since female members of the NSDAP who qualified for the GPB only received the small badge, it is possible that what the women received was the Fuess-marked badge.

Br. James

[Volksturmer]

Thank you James, you are a true scholar and a gentleman.