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    #781
    Originally posted by JoeW View Post
    Yes it does, thank you Jon.

    Hitler wrote that he had summoned additional units from other parts of Germany to take part in this important event. This is substantiated by Schwede-Coburg's account of the 10th Anniversary Award Ceremony where in indicated men from other parts of Germany had come for the celebration. In addition, Hitler accounted for additional men in his account that swelled the ranks of the Hundertschaften that had accompanied him on the train. One must conclude they arrived on their own. Included in the additional numbers would be those Coburgers who decided to join the movement or had been members waiting for the event. These 22 men are found in the list of the first 436 recipients. It was a well planned out strategic battle to expand the notoriety of Hitler's movement.
    In reading again the events recounted in "Mein Kampf", Hitler describes how "At all places where additional S.A. men got in (the train), the transport aroused greatest attention." So his original contingent of SA men from Munich was supplemented by others from points along the way like Nurnberg.

    I pulled the SS officer files for two of the SS men listed by Lumsden as having received the CB on their SS file card but not being listed in what I must conclude as an incomplete list of recipients. The men are Anton Huber and Gustav Huebschmann. Both are "old" NSDAP (3 digit GPB) and SS members. They were appointed officers in 1934, but obviously were SA/SS well before that time as their party numbers attest. They were both Bavarians, the former from Nurnberg and the later from Vohburg o. Donau, and they most certainly would have been at Coburg. I can see no other reason for the award.

    Perhaps one must reassess the numbers of Coburg badges awarded given the work of Klietmann in the Ordens-Militaria-Magazin wherein he indicated by correspondance between Schwede and the Kanzlei in Munich in 1932 that 600 badges were to be ordered.

    Comment

      #782
      Originally posted by JoeW View Post
      I pulled the SS officer files for two of the SS men listed by Lumsden as having received the CB on their SS file card but not being listed in what I must conclude as an incomplete list of recipients. The men are Anton Huber and Gustav Huebschmann. Both are "old" NSDAP (3 digit GPB) and SS members. They were appointed officers in 1934, but obviously were SA/SS well before that time as their party numbers attest. They were both Bavarians, the former from Nurnberg and the later from Vohburg o. Donau, and they most certainly would have been at Coburg. I can see no other reason for the award.
      I have Huber as a 4 digit member.

      Doing a quick count, I have 14 names of awardees not on the list, but showing they received the CB either in the DAL or personnel files.

      Comment

        #783
        Originally posted by JoeW View Post

        Perhaps one must reassess the numbers of Coburg badges awarded given the work of Klietmann in the Ordens-Militaria-Magazin wherein he indicated by correspondance between Schwede and the Kanzlei in Munich in 1932 that 600 badges were to be ordered.
        Joe, I doubt very much that 600 badges were awarded but they possibly could have been ordered.

        I think that originally 5000 1st pattern Blood Orders were ordered? but only 1500 were awarded.

        I will go with the official list along with the later added on names as the total badges awarded.

        Comment

          #784
          Originally posted by der-hase-fee View Post
          I have Huber as a 4 digit member.

          Doing a quick count, I have 14 names of awardees not on the list, but showing they received the CB either in the DAL or personnel files.
          Andreas, you have another Anton Huber. His SS Offizier Akte is quite legible. He is one of the 14 identified by Lumsden in his list of 450.

          Originally posted by ErichS
          Joe, I doubt very much that 600 badges were awarded but they possibly could have been ordered.I think that originally 5000 1st pattern Blood Orders were ordered? but only 1500 were awarded.I will go with the official list along with the later added on names as the total badges awarded.
          Erich, I didn't know there were 600 badges produced. The subject has piqued my interest and it is amazing the literature out there over the past 30 years. The two men mentioned above were SS non-officers when the anniversary celebration and badge distribution occurred. These men made officer rank. How many more of the 1500 involved in Coburg 1922 remained non-officers? Of course it is conjecture, but we now know there were men out there who received the badge after the first awarding and subsequent requests recorded by the Stabsabteilung of the OSAF in that list of presented Ehrenzeichen. The official list is obviously missing some veterans. Perhaps it was assembled after the Besitz-Zeugnis documents dated October 1932 were sent out at the turn of the year 1934/35.
          Last edited by JoeW; 07-09-2012, 05:18 PM.

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            #785
            Originally posted by ErichS View Post
            I think that originally 5000 1st pattern Blood Orders were ordered? but only 1500 were awarded.
            In one of Klietmann's publications, he's writing that the party had ordered 50.000 (!) BO's but had Fuess deliver only 20.000 and produce the remainder without him under own (NSDAP) management.

            Comment

              #786
              Originally posted by JoeW View Post
              Andreas, you have another Anton Huber. His SS Offizier Akte is quite legible.
              Sorry, it's Gustav Hübschmann who I have as a 4 digit member.

              Comment

                #787
                The file of SS Obersturmbannfuhrer Walter Bellwidt lists him as a recipient.

                Comment

                  #788
                  Originally posted by Bob Coleman View Post
                  The file of SS Obersturmbannfuhrer Walter Bellwidt lists him as a recipient.
                  Thanks, Bob. Finally added him to my list, too.

                  http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...5&postcount=44

                  Comment

                    #789
                    Originally posted by der-hase-fee View Post
                    In one of Klietmann's publications, he's writing that the party had ordered 50.000 (!) BO's but had Fuess deliver only 20.000 and produce the remainder without him under own (NSDAP) management.
                    Andreas, most now agree that the 20, 000 - 50,000 number was an incorrect number reported by modern authors of how many BOs were ordered. The number that makes sense is 2000-5000.

                    When Himmler amended the requirements of who could quilify for the TK ring to include those who were awarded the CB, he stated that in cases of enlisted men that they had to produce the award document, so there must of been recipients who did not become officers awarded the badge.

                    Comment

                      #790
                      Originally posted by der-hase-fee View Post
                      Sorry, it's Gustav Hübschmann who I have as a 4 digit member.
                      You're right Andreas, and that is my error. I picked his SS number rather than the four digit party number. He was from Nurnberg and was perhaps picked up on the way to Coburg.

                      Comment

                        #791
                        I find it interesting that Himmler only mentions the Coburg Badge and GPB as the only political awards that automatically made an SS man eligable to receive the TK ring. I would have thought that he would have included the Blood Order as well.

                        Comment

                          #792
                          Indeed it is interesting, Erich...possibly a statement by Himmler that "If I can't have one, then we'll just ignore it!" Childish...?? Of course, but this is hardly the only example of Himmler imposing regs that reflect his own achievements by restricting those who have surpassed him in some way or other!

                          Br. James

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                            #793
                            On my list Anton Huber held NSDAP number 556 according to the DAL. He was neither a CB or a BO recipient.

                            Br. James

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                              #794
                              I think I missed something along the way -- is it being said that Walter Bellwidt was a Coburg Badge recipient? His name does not appear on either of the two established lists or in the DALs with that award.

                              Br. James

                              Comment

                                #795
                                Originally posted by Br. James View Post
                                On my list Anton Huber held NSDAP number 556 according to the DAL. He was neither a CB or a BO recipient.

                                Br. James
                                I guess it depends on which DAL you are examining. My 1937 shows him. I think that is why Lumsden added his name. Whatever. But his file card definitely has the asterisk in the Coburg box.

                                I think Bob Coleman indicated that he has Bellwidt's SS file card that indicates the Coburg award.

                                I thought I would add this photo of the commander of Hitler's SA troops at Coburg in 1922: Leutnant Hans Ulrich Klintsch. He was soon replaced. He is of course on the OSAF list.

                                Last edited by JoeW; 07-10-2012, 12:27 PM.

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