Police Panzer Wrappers

[Richard P]

Joe,

Don't quite know how I missed that great shot of the back of the collar...even though I looked at it quite a few times.

Thanks for the stamp wording, I have never seen a stamp with so much information. Should prove to be a key part here.

As far as the belt hook holes go many panzer wraps have never had them punched through as it would appear many were not used. Very common to see that. I look forward to more photos.

Richard

[JoeW]

The inside ink stamp read:

" IM AUFTRAGE Des
SS -BW POSEN
Auftrag Nr. xxxxxx
1944

xxx xxx xxx

xxx xxx xxx"

The x's are numbers that I can't make out. I presume the last six set of numbers represent the manufacturing numbers as usually seen in police tunics.

SS-BW POSEN = SS-Bekleidungs Werkstatt Posen
SS-Clothing Factory Posen

[Dave C.]

More detail shots of Joe's wrap!

[Dave C.]

cuff1

[Dave C.]

cuff2

[besslein]

Thank you Dave for this monumental job.

Bill, I am not being sensitive my friend. I am just writing that not much was known that long ago and we have all come a long way in knowledge. The tunic stumped me then and now. But at the price, discussion certainly doesn't bother me in the least. You are correct that the Police Division switched to standardized Waffen SS insignia and were supposed to abandone the mix of Heer insignia from their artillery and communication units. As for the combat police regiments, I guess they were down the pecking order for supplies. The police armored units did operate self propelled guns- an Italian one. There is a photo of one behind a police trooper with a tropical helmet on reading a copy of Deutsche Polizei. I believe Regenburg used that photo in his book.

Richard, the reverse of the collar tab/collar sewing is shown in #57. There is a back of cuff shot showing the edge treatment. I will take another shot of the outside.

The inside ink stamping reads as " IM xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"
SS -BW POSEN
Auftrag Nr. xxxxxx
1944

I will work on the top line with a better photo and play with the color contrast. As I wrote, the belt hook holes in the tunic were never cut to fit the hooks through. Woud that mean it was unissued?

im not happy with the SS BW stamp,so far i know this stamp SSBW was used only at Dachau factory

[Zauberflöte]

im not happy with the SS BW stamp,so far i know this stamp SSBW was used only at Dachau factory

This is true to what I think to believe. But the term SS-Bekleidungswerke was used for other associated "factories” as well, like Ravensbrück that used the marking as we know to be Betr.Ra.. Therefore, was there actually a production facility in Posen (Poznan Poland)? In that case they could have used this marking, something I would not necessarily rule out.

I find this a fascinating wrap and combination of insignia, something I've never seen before and known to have existed. Does anyone have a period picture to share of police troops actually wearing assault gun wrappers? Is there for instance any provenance on the example shown on a page 271 of Angolia and Taylor's book? The markings in this one? Not many could have been made.

[Zauberflöte]

This is true to what I think to believe. But the term SS-Bekleidungswerke was used for other associated "factories” as well, like Ravensbrück that used the marking as we know to be Betr.Ra.. Therefore, was there actually a production facility in Posen (Poznan Poland)? In that case they could have used this marking, something I would not necessarily rule out.

I find this a fascinating wrap and combination of insignia, something I've never seen before and known to have existed. Does anyone have a period picture to share of police troops actually wearing assault gun wrappers? Is there for instance any provenance on the example shown on a page 271 of Angolia and Taylor's book? The markings in this one? Not many could have been made.

And as an additional note; if indeed SS-BW was contracted for the manufactering, should the style not be SS instead of Heer (i.e. cut straight from the front and no central seam at the rear...although again, of course variations exist)?

[Richard P]

Hello Zauberflote,

I don't think the SS-BW was only a manufacturer, but were distributors and rework facilities, if I recall correctly. As I mentioned to you in an email, I have a Police stug wrap in SS cut with the owner's soldbuch, with the photo showing him wearing it. I have only seen one other SS cut stug wrap (original in my opinion) in Police blue green, it was stripped and rather worn.

All other original Police wraps I have seen have been in Heer cut. Joe's wrap is very interesting in so many ways. It has good points and a few bad ones. It is one of those that definitely needs to be seen in hand. The markings baffle me, but I like other things about it. I think Joe was pretty smart picking it up. It's one of those wait and see what future info holds, and what photos may come up items.

I have seen the example on page 271 of Angolia and Taylor's in person. Somewhere I have photos of the markings, but can't locate them at the moment. I did not care for the wrap.

Richard

[Zauberflöte]

Hello Zauberflote,

I don't think the SS-BW was only a manufacturer, but were distributors and rework facilities, if I recall correctly.
Richard

This is correct Richard, sorry, maybe I was not clear enough. Indeed quite often when wrappers were reworked and modified and sizes were adjusted, the rear seam was made where the original SS style was without it. This can of course also be a complete Heer style reworked wrapper in a SS-BW?

[Richard P]

Zauberflote,

Just about anything is possible. I haven't personally seen the type of reworks you mention, but I have seen some in reference books. You never know what may be around the next corner. I look forward as more and more items and photos are uncovered...and at times, created.

Richard

[stonemint]

Does anyone have any idea who the advanced collector might be that consigned this piece?

http://www.championhillrelics.com/WWII.htm

[stonemint]

Just in case the thing gets sold, here are the pics:

[stonemint]

2

[stonemint]

3