GWL Pilot's Badges

[Tim Calvert]

Back.

[Tim O.]

How about comparing weights and measurements. Here are the rough dimensions of my GWL Pilot. It has the 'dark caramel' coloured eagle, no break in the circle on the maker's mark and the fingerprint swirls.

<TABLE class=MsoTableGrid style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 437.4pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-yfti-tbllook: 191; mso-padding-alt: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-border-insideh: none; mso-border-insidev: none" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=583 border=1><TBODY><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 0; mso-yfti-firstrow: yes"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=189>

Feature<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 295.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=394 colSpan=2>

Weight<o></o>

</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 1"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>

Award<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 295.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=394 colSpan=2>

44.50g<o></o>

</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 2"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; BACKGROUND: #7f7f7f; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-shading: windowtext; mso-pattern: gray-50 auto" vAlign=top width=189>

<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>

Height (12 o’clock to 6 o’clock)<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=204>

Width (9 o’clock to 3 o’clock)<o></o>

</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 3"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>

Eagle<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>

15.59mm <o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=204>

12.62mm<o></o>

</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 4"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>

Eagle Wings<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>

10.79mm (max)<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=204>

63.34mm<o></o>

</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 5"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>

Wreath<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>

52.63mm<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=204>

42.76mm<o></o>

</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 6"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>

Swastika<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>

15.08mm<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=204>

16.60mm<o></o>

</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 7"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>

Pin<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>

45.28mm<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=204>

1.54mm (hinge to catch)<o></o>

</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 8"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>

Hinge<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>

3.23mm<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=204>

6.36mm<o></o>

</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 9; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>

Maker’s Mark<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>

7.24mm<o></o>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=204>

7.21mm<o></o>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

best wishes
Tim O.

[Mathias1703]

I do see a difference in the GWL maker marks (the circle) in of the photos Larry posted (post #1). Two of the circles are broken, one is complete - yet all have the fingerprint swirls. Did the earlier badges have a perfect complete circle before the die flaw develope?

Mathias, in one of your photos the swastika appears to have a coating of paint? over the swastika. Does the eagle appear to be painted black?


Robert

Robert,


yes, the eagle is a black one.

Mathias

[Mathias1703]

How about comparing weights and measurements. Here are the rough dimensions of my GWL Pilot. It has the 'dark caramel' coloured eagle, no break in the circle on the maker's mark and the fingerprint swirls.


<TABLE class=MsoTableGrid style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 437.4pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-yfti-tbllook: 191; mso-padding-alt: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-border-insideh: none; mso-border-insidev: none" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=583 border=1><TBODY><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 0; mso-yfti-firstrow: yes"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=189>

Feature<O></O>

</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 295.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=394 colSpan=2>Weight<O></O>


</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 1"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>Award<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 295.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=394 colSpan=2>44.50g<O></O>


</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 2"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; BACKGROUND: #7f7f7f; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-shading: windowtext; mso-pattern: gray-50 auto" vAlign=top width=189><O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>Height (12 o’clock to 6 o’clock)<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=204>Width (9 o’clock to 3 o’clock)<O></O>


</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 3"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>Eagle<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>15.59mm <O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=204>12.62mm<O></O>


</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 4"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>Eagle Wings<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>10.79mm (max)<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=204>63.34mm<O></O>


</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 5"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>Wreath<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>52.63mm<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=204>42.76mm<O></O>


</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 6"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>Swastika<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>15.08mm<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=204>16.60mm<O></O>


</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 7"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>Pin<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>45.28mm<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=204>1.54mm (hinge to catch)<O></O>


</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 8"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>Hinge<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>3.23mm<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=204>6.36mm<O></O>


</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 9; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 142pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=189>Maker’s Mark<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 142.25pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext 1.0pt" vAlign=top width=190>7.24mm<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 153.15pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=204>7.21mm<O></O>



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


best wishes
Tim O.

Tim,

thanks a lot.

My badge has exactly 44,5 gr. and the other measures are the same too (sometimes 0,1-0,2mm variations).

I think this is very interesting.

Mathias

<img src="http://bilder.bedel2000.de/Neu/waage.JPG"><p>

[Mathias1703]

I think that the weight is very important. I don´t know fakes with the same weight as original badges.
Iron crosses, pilots, observer and so on ......the fakes have all different weights than the original ones.


More weights from GWL pilots are welcome.


Mathias

[Larry Lipps]

I have three GWL pilot's badges but I'm not certain how effective the weights will be since they all have various states of wear. All have the fingerprint, two have the ring break and one doesn't.

1. No ring break, Wreath Height 52.832 & width 42.672. Eagle's wingtips 65.354. Weight 45.1
2. Ring Break, Wreath height 52.807 & width 42.671. Eagle's wingtips 62.857. Weight 44.3
3. Ring Break, Wreath height 52.832 & width 42.671. Eagle's wingtips 65.238. Weight 44.9.

When I measure the wingtips, three attempts equals three different results so I'm using the average of three attempts. The most minor position change can equal a large differential on the same badge but this is pretty close. Since I think it's save to assume the same die was used, I'll throw in the PO badge measurements as well.

1. Ring Break, Wreath height 52.835 & width 42.673. Eagle's wingtips 65.354.

[mmiller]

1) GWL badges with swirls are authentic.

2) GWL badges without swirls may well be authentic.

3) GWL badges without swirls may well be fakes.


Number 1 is textbook. Numbers 2 and 3 combined become complex.

I don't think anyone has said that the badges without swirls are outright fakes. The issue is (assuming authenticity) identifying the similarities and differences between Numbers 2 and 3 above. Again, the quantity of these 'without swirls' badges popping up in quantity is a BIG RED FLAG for me. The bad guys have been working on the perfect GWL P/O for quite some time. I have watched the evolution take place over the last 15 years, at military shows and on the net. The first generation of the badge was hideous. The problems poked you in the eye, they were so bad. Each sequential generation of the badge has improved (probably thanks to us, for pointing out all the flaws). Isn't it logical that the latest generation is due out, or IS out, right about now?

I think it would be foolhearty to make the blanket statement that all GWL P/O & P Badges without swirls are authentic. If we are to say that some 'without swirls' badges are good, then we must show the differences and similarities between the authentic (without swirls) and the fake (without swirls) badges.

Off to bed .......

Mark

[Larry Lipps]

Mark makes a good point. I try to collect maker marked badges because they're one of the few constants in our hobby. If we were talking Knight's Crosses, any variation from accepted standards would be met with high skepticism. That's not to say new information hasn't come to light to change our views. I would not say that any badge without the fingerprint is bad, it's just that since it would be very difficult to duplicate, I want to have it on badges in my collection.

[juvatwad]

If there are "super" fakes that have captured every detail of a textbook GWL including the defect in the maker's mark, why would the "fingerprint" have been omitted? That would seem to be one of the easier features to duplicate.

[Jeff V]

The fingerprint is not easy to duplicate. If it was every GWL fake would have it.
As far as Mathias' badge is concerned, it is very interesting that the weights and measurements were nearly identical. This is a very good sign for originality. If original, the badge was made with no machining swirl on the reverse, at the same time the finish was changed to the black color. I can usually accept one variation on a badge if everything else is identical with a "textbook" piece. In this case we have two anomolies-no swirl and a different finish. On the plus side Mathias badge has perfect hardware and what appears to be the same level of detail as an accepted piece. Based on the latest information I am now leaning toward Mathias badge being an original. In no way does this make all no swirl badges original. I would still like to find a no swirl badge like Mathias' with the bronze colored eagle to help close this case out. I would also exercise caution when considering the purchase of a GWL pilot that does not have the swirl AND all the other characteristics that make up an original GWL. best wishes,
jeff

[Robert P.]

If we look closely at the photos Larry posted, all three photos exhibit different machine swirl patterns. If these swirls WERE applied manually, as I understand this, they would not only all be each different, but I could also see where this step could possibly have been left out from time to time. I'm looking from a novice point of view with great curiosity. I see different maker marks, different swirl patterns, no swirls, differently colored finishes, etc...Jeff, please, not to step on your feet here, but are we waiting for one more finish color without swirls to document originality? What will it's maker mark need to look like to be considered original? All (3) of Larry's badges fall well within acceptable ranges to be considered original, and yet have (2) different maker marks.

Robert

[Jeff V]

Hi Robert, I just state what I would be completely comfortable with in my collection. I make no determination for anyone else. best wishes,
jeff

[Jeff V]

As far as the maker mark it is hard to say. It appears to me from the images that you just posted that Mathias' badge was in between the break mm and no break mm. So , for this to be believable, the factory left the swirl off and changed the eagle's finish then went back to the old finish and put the swirl back on.
In actuality, this is not believable, most likely the die was repaired in the makermark area at least once, if not more. IMO it is not possible to determine anything from the mm. best wishes,
jeff

[Robert P.]

Hi Robert, I just state what I would be completely comfortable with in my collection. I make no determination for anyone else. best wishes,
jeff

Yes, I understand, Jeff. I'm very interested in this maker of pilot, but like many, I want to 'learn the ropes' before committing. These GWL's seem to be the most problematic of pilot's. Until reading this thread I was very interested in one particular badge, but now with the discovery of this new thread I have reservations.

Thanks,
Robert

[Robert P.]

As far as the maker mark it is hard to say. It appears to me from the images that you just posted that Mathias' badge was in between the break mm and no break mm. So , for this to be believable, the factory left the swirl off and changed the eagle's finish then went back to the old finish and put the swirl back on.
In actuality, this is not believable, most likely the die was repaired in the makermark area at least once, if not more. IMO it is not possible to determine anything from the mm. best wishes,
jeff

Assuming Mathias's badge is original, yes. I'm not saying it isn't, but I have reservations based on other's comments and photos. Yet, not all are against this badge. Tim's comment regarding the craftsmanship is to be considered. And, Jeff, I have to believe that there should be determining factors in the maker marks of these badges. I understand the criteria of originality is determined by the major components of a badge when a maker mark is not present, but shouldn't also the maker mark be included if stamped? I understand your point about die repair(s) changing the appearance of the mark. I'm in a strait also, waiting to see other examples.

Robert