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    #1

    GWL Pilot's Badges

    Guys,
    At several shows recently I've seen a number of GWL Pilot's Badges that lack the distinctive "fingerprint" toolmark pattern on the reverse of the eagle near the maker's mark. I've enclosed a photo of several badges that I consider original to show what I'm talking about. The same pattern is on the Pilot's and Pilot Observer's badge both with and without the 8 o'clock ring break. My question is whether or not anyone has an original GWL with no trace of this pattern?
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    #2
    Hi Larry, IMO this feature is always found on originals. It is interesting that you bring up this point when Mathias has listed a pilot and observer on e-stand. I do not see any fingerprint on the reverse and the finish is not correct IMO on his examples. The hardware, at least on the pilot, looks good. The observer's catch I am not keen on.
    I would be interested in hearing some more opinions on Mathias' badges. Does anyone have an original with a bluish finish like Mathias' eagle rather than the bronzish brown color that is typically found on originals? What about a wreath on a supposedly minty badge without white frosting and polished highlights? best wishes,
    jeff
    Looking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.

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      #3
      I have looked at Mathias's badges also and while I do not have a GWL pilot (but do know what you mean by the "fingerprint") I really don't see anything wrong other than it has none of the frosted finish on the wreath that I would consider for a 'mint' GWL, its in very good condition but not mint.

      Same with the observer, if there is no frosted wreath then its not 'mint' but that's just word choice. I agree with Jeff that the catch on the observer is a bit odd but could it be an expert repair? He's certainly not hiding anything with the size of those pictures.

      I remember Detlev had a GWL pilot 5-6 years ago, mint wreath and almost black eagle. I also saw one at the 2002 SOS, nearly the same condition, I didn't get either one

      I made up for it a little this year with this observer though. Do the observer's have the 'fingerprint'? I can't see it on my pictures, I'll have to look tonight.

      Alan
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        #4
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          #5
          All The GWL Pilot and P/O badges I have handled have always had the "fingerprint" I have not had too many observers in hand so I can't comment on that one.
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            #6
            Larry, this could be an interesting topic. I have three GWL's. A pilot observer, pilot, and observer. Both pilots show the fingerprint but the observer does not, although the observer is traced to the man who got it it WWII. I think you started the thread on pilots and that we will see that the fingerprint is characteristic with the pilot but the detail of the fingerprint degrades over time and could almost be used for dating the badge. I do not think it may apply to the observer that has other characteristics. We shall see.

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              #7
              I agree that the fingerprint that we associate with the pilot series is not the same for the observer badge.
              The finish is the same. The example posted by cassidy is very nice and illustrates the color I am comfortable with. best wishes,
              jeff
              Looking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.

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                #8
                I also want to say that Alan's badge is textbook. best wishes,
                jeff
                Looking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Guys, my intent was not to cast doubt on anyone's Estand items. I've seen several GWL pilots badges at shows lately that do not exhibit any trace of the pattern which has given me cause for concern. Sometimes the "fingerprint" is difficult to photograph and it doesn't show up unless you have it in hand so I hate making a judgement based on a photo. I have only seen the pattern on pilot's badges, not the observer. It appears that the general consensus so far is that original badges should have it.
                  Ignored Due To Invisibility.

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                    #10
                    Hi Alan,

                    all photos from me on e-stand are made at daylight. The "GWL" observer is in mint condition and frosty. Please have a look at my new photos in the same thread. The new photos are made 5 minutes ago without daylight.

                    The pilot is near mint with a dark black eagle. The pilots badge don´t have the "fingerprint" but it´s 100% a good one.

                    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=255207


                    Mathias

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                      #11
                      The day I received the pilots badge (a couple of months ago) I started a thread.

                      Please have a look.


                      http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...&highlight=gwl


                      Mathias

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                        #12
                        Guys, this post has taken a turn I hadn't expected but I'd like to try and get more feedback to my original question before it dies. The basic purpose of the forum is to share knowledge and experience about this minefield we call a hobby. Considering that I saw five pilots badges on one dealers table at the MAX without any trace of the "fingerprint" pattern and at the Houston Show, there were three more, I'm still looking for answers. Basically, is it acceptable for GWL Pilot's Badges to not have this pattern and be accepted as original? I've long had concerns about the "perfect fake" creeping in and being accepted as original. I certainly don't want to cast doubt on original examples, but I don't want to see a flood of fakes become accepted as originals. I know a lot of you guys have GWL badges so what's the verdict?
                        Ignored Due To Invisibility.

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                          #13
                          Your original question has already died, same with any discussion of Mathias' badges. You guys out there that want GWL's with weird finishes and no fingerprint can have them.
                          Larry, you have seen EIGHT GWL badges without fingerprints in two shows ! Where were all the perfect GWL's without fingerprints in the past? best wishes,
                          jeff
                          Looking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Both my P/O and Pilot have the swirl. Observer .... maybe something very faint, not sure.

                            Regards,
                            Mark
                            "You can check out any time you like ..... But you can never leave....."

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Advice I've received from several knowledgable serious collectors: no defect in the stamp=no good. That's what I'll stick to personally.

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