Ball Hinge Glider

[Stijn David]

Ball hinge glider

Hello,

@ Chris:

Hello chris, interesting story => would love to read the article's written on the capturing of those badges (so feel free to post that). Could you tell us what other badges etc ... can scans (detailed) be shown?

I would also love to learn from this thread as such threads are possibility's for all of us, believers and non believers.

please do not take this way to serious, we can all only speak from what we have found and are always in a learning curve.

" I have been accused in the past on this forum of defending variations from the norm and it looks like I am doing this again except on this one I am certain and any-one who says these badges is wrong is a commiting a crime against history. "

A norm is not always the rule, that is certain as there also does exist in the german glider pilots badge the so called "large eagle" variant. That bird does in no way even comes close towards a certain norm. I would not want to commit crimes against history but am waiting to be convinced (as that is something i am still not => mayby one day i will ? ).


@ TDurante (Tom): Hi Tom, indeed there are certainly ways documented off overproduction. There was made a certain number for sure by each manufacturer. As in the case of the Gold CCC we can make the following comment:

1) they where transformed into the silver class (= re-use)
2) as said before that is a combat award and no qualification badge (= big difference)

I have to add towards that in the case of the german glider pilots badge, there where at least 2 producers who made them in a industrial way (Juncker & BSW) who lets say each made a batch of approx. 2.000 badges (that number is relative as we do not know in wich batches such badges where produced - so it is only a example).

That does make a total of 4.000 badges, then iff we know that 2.000 badges where awarded we still have a stock of 2.000 left. Wy would there then be another producer ???? (just explaining my belief). So for the good readers, yes there is proof that approx. 2.000 glider badges would have been awarded. So all lower numbers are not correct for sure.

Anyway as the numbers do form a week point in this theory we can not proove it, but untill now i have not found such a badge in a 100 % certain case where a veteran still had it left. The possibility does exist that one does pop up in the near future but untill then i do say no.
Cordial greetings,

@ All: towards wich producer do you guys count this very type of glider badge?

ps: iff i do stand alone in this one that is very fine for me, as the persons who are buying these must be happy.

[Frank Heukemes]

@ All: towards wich producer do you guys count this very type of glider badge?

I am with Robert, a Gablonz based producer is very, very likely, because of the setup and finish. Also the slightly odd leaf design points towards R.K. who has used a very similar one on his super-rare RO/AG.

[WARLORD]

I have a ball hinged badge, this was obtained by a British RAF Officer along with other flying clasps at a North German Luftwaffe drome. The vet sold his uniform and medals to Micheal Young an expert on WW1 and WW2 flying. He did not have interest in German items and sold them to me. Direct unhindered link to 1945.

[Stijn David]

Ball Hinge glider

Hello,


@ Frank: Thank you frank for pointing that out, any idea on a concrete name?

@ Warlord: Could you please post pictures from that badge (front and reverse) that is in your collection.


Cordial greetings,

[skip]

@ Frank: Thank you frank for pointing that out, any idea on a concrete name?

Yes, I know I******180;m not Frank but

RK is Rudolf Karneth which is most likely, although possibly the unknown AS in Triangle or A.S. Adolf Scholze could also come into the question as they used ball hinges as well. Futher the conglomerate AGMuK.

Skip

[Stijn David]

Ball hinge glider

Hello,


Dear Skip => your opinion is just as much appreciated as Franks


Cordial greetings,

[Stijn David]

the ball hinge - one more

Hello,


Here is the badge as possesed by Warlord. Looks like a exact match as the one discussed here.


Cordial greetings,

[Stijn David]

the reverse

Hello,


Here is the reverse.


Cordial greetings,

[90th Light]

Hello Stijn David and others following this thread.

The LW base was at "Luckenwalde" which I am told is between Leipzig and Dresden. I can not find the Stalag number but it was very close to Luckenwalde. I will however try to find the number.
Other members of the forum may recognise this base and know ?

Sadly I do not have a copy of the POW magazine but it was published as a letter to the magazine in the mid-1980's. The magazine was called "POW-WOW" and it was for members of the New Zealand former prisoner of war association. I will now endeavour to track a copy down and make it avaliable to members of this forum.

I spoke to one of the other collectors tonight about this and he told me he could remember alot of flight clasps, qualification badges and cuff titles including an Afrika one on tightly woven cotten and early FJR1 titles. He also said many of the badges had been made by Osang. The makers among my badges are Osang, RK. BSW, RSS, B&NL and Assmann.

I will locate my badges and arrange to have some images posted.

Hope this is all of help, Chris

[Jeff V]

Thanks to both Chris' for their examples!
I think RK might be the maker as well. The thing that bothers me about RK is those rivets. They do not look anything like the luft ground assault or the numbered badges made by RK. The hardware and finish looks very RK like. best wishes,
jeff

[mgidhagen]

Some "new" input...

Bringing this up again, one year since the last post… Anyways, since I also (by now) own one of these glider pilot badges, I just would like to share some reflections:

<o></o>I am a believer! Everything screams genuine when holding it, even though there still remain to be seen pictures of this particular type of badge in wear (more about this below).<o></o>

Comparing the ball hinge and round-wire catch set-ups with the above suggested makers’ known and maker-marked badges, I would say that you find a perfect match in MK (MuK/AGMuK)-made IABs (look at the position of the pin in the hinge when the pin is closed, the lathe-marks to the ball hinge, and the catch set-up). So, a Gablonz maker seems to be spot on: one of the firms of the MuK-conglomerate.<o>

</o>The few badges that I have seen pictured (I think I counted five(?) that have been discussed here in this forum) are almost all in mint or only slightly worn condition. My impression of my own example is that it has never been awarded, or at least never been worn – even though the silver wash has deteriorated quite badly compared to the other badges shown.<o></o>

This spurred me to elaborate a "theory": for some unknown reason, the MuK-conglomerate was given the order to produce these badges, maybe because the conglomerate could – at this stage of war time production – produce them at a lower cost than e.g. Juncker (which would perhaps explain the resource- saving (?) of not using ordinary rivets and tools for that step in the manufacturing?). However, as discussed, the demand for these badges was not as high as might have been expected, due to other priorities in tactical training and strategic use of gliders(?), and the result was that the bulk of the stock of MuK-manufactured glider pilot badges remained in storage. This would explain the condition of the badges that are in the hands of collectors today, and would also be a reasonable explanation why there aren’t (so far) any pictorial, nor first-hand proof that they were actually awarded to, or worn by, graduated LW glider pilots.<o></o>

Just some food for thoughts …<o></o>

Cheers,<o></o>

Mikael

[mgidhagen]

Pic 2

[Bob Hritz]

I like the ball hinge versions very much.

They are not crude castings like the BSW types with a casting seam running around the perimeter edges of the wreath.

I wish I could find a nice ball hinge Glider Pilot badge.

Bob Hritz

[mgidhagen]

Pic 3

[mgidhagen]

Pic 4