1st and 2nd Model S-Boot Badges

[Ron P]

Gentlemen, concerning the Schwerin 1st Model I have stats and new pictures. Weight: 25.4 grams on a digital lab scale. Vertical measurement: 5.5 cm. Horizontal middle: 4.4 cm. Horizontal inside cutout: 3.0 cm. More pics. Please, if it's dud let me know! Also, if it is good, let me know.

[Ron P]

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[Ron P]

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[Ron P]

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[Ron P]

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[Norm F]

Gentlemen, concerning the Schwerin 1st Model I have stats and new pictures. Weight: 25.4 grams on a digital lab scale. Vertical measurement: 5.5 cm. Horizontal middle: 4.4 cm. Horizontal inside cutout: 3.0 cm. More pics. Please, if it's dud let me know! Also, if it is good, let me know.

Hi Ron,

I'm afraid the photos and the measurements clinch it. It's another example of the extremely well-made cast reproduction discussed in the other thread. It's a millimetre or two too small, but more significantly it's considerably underweight compared to originals, just like the other two in the other thread.

Here are some comparisons to originals. On the reverse of the wreath you can see a slight cupping of the surface from the casting method. On originals there is a depressed internal margin from the trimming stamp which is absent on the casting. The hardware is very well done but the pin is too wide and lacks the flattened tooling mark on the hinge end. The hinge block is well-done but the lines aren't as crisp as originals. Likewise the catch wire has rounded margins instead of sharp margins, and the top hook on every example we've seen of this fake is too long and curls upwards.

More on the next post.

[Norm F]

Comparison of the obverse (attached) on magnification shows many small distortions compared with an original -- an evident loss of detail despite what was nevertheless a pretty sophisticated casting for the era.

I think in past years and at shows anyone would have mistaken this repro for an original. Someone took a lot of care with this one, presumably a profitable enough venture for a high-end badge like a Tombak S-boat.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

I want to thank Ron for posting his photos of this badge for analysis. Not easy to face the music on a high-end badge like this but this provides an excellent reference and invaluable service to future collectors.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Ron P]

You sure have to be on your toes in this field. I paid a premium price from a well known reputable dealer. I'm going to contact him.

[Giel VW]

You nailed it there Norm. Thanks for the extra pictures Ron, for me also a copy without a doubt!

[BubbaZ]

I think in past years and at shows anyone would have mistaken this repro for an original.

Thanks Norm for the comparisons
I think it is very difficult to recognize it at a show even for the experienced eye... we all have to be very cautious.
Cheers,
Hubert

[John R.]

This fake is well known to some of us on the forum and has made its appearance before as Norm has stated.

It was a clear fake from the first images posted by Ron but to recognize it as a fake, a collector would have had to remember, or even know, that this fake has been around for some time and understand what to look for.

Norm and I have an advantage in this for a number of reasons, not the least was our work with "The Kriegsmarine Awards" published by Dietrich. I recommend buying it if you are a collector of these badges since with it in hand, and comparing it to the one posted by Ron, you could see the problem.

Norm and I went into great detail about the first pattern S-boat in that book, so it is a good investment and makes Dietrich happy too!!!!

Naturally, you probably do not want to haul all three volumes to a show, but for the cost of some of these badges, I would do exactly that and have done exactly that, plus a good magnifying glass, not the $5 types at a drugstore either.

I hope, by referencing this thread, the dealer will study Ron's badge a little more carefully and see what happened.

Please keep us posted on this expensive badge Ron and let us know what is happening.

Give it some time Ron, in the end, I would hope you can simply return it and chalk it up to the learning experience. You may lose a little money in shipping costs, maybe not, but do not worry about that. If I was the dealer, I would refund to you the full cost of the badge to include shipping though, that is how I would handle it if it was something I sold to another collector, but that is me.

John

[Martin W]

Definately a learning experience for me.

Regards,Martin.

[John R.]

Definately a learning experience for me.

Regards,Martin.

The first AND second pattern Schwerin S-boat badges must both be carefully compared to originals these days. No quick judgement calls unless you know for sure it is a fake.

The originals are wonderfully designed badges, popular with collectors, and expensive. Perfect recipe for the fakers. The target of the faker could be dealers and collectors alike.

I almost hate to say too much about the first pattern since minor changes in the finishing techniques could make even this example more convincing, but that is where we are at. I said "more", not completely. Nothing can make that badge period.

For the second pattern, the first clue is the finish. A lot of gold, the flags go up and you need to go to the side by side comparisons to examine the letters and pin. Some period examples do have finish remaining, but not many. Most are grey. So that is a good clue for the collector to be more careful.

John

[John R.]

Definately a learning experience for me.

Regards,Martin.

Did you buy the books Martin?

I am sure you would not be fooled by an AC badge though, but look at the time you have put into them. The average collector simply cannot do that but they can post here before purchase to get your opinion.

That is why this forum is so helpful to collectors who just want to enjoy the hobby, not make it a profession.

John