5-feather U-Boat opinions

[Norm F]

Same stippled pattern on the obverse flashing of the somewhat controversial S-Boat with diamonds described in English edition of Weber/Skora's "The Kriegsmarine Awards":

"This piece was first published in Klietmann’s book Auszeichnungen
des Deutschen Reichs 1936-1945 (Motorbuchverlag Stuttgart, 1989). Klietmann considered the badge a genuine period example which was never awarded. It allegedly surfaced in 1965 in Berlin and was reportedly found amongst the ruins of the former headquarters of the Kriegsmarine. The authors were able to examine this example and the badge is pictured on pages 952-953."

[Norm F]

The unfinished "AS in triangle" planchets found in Gablonz showed similar stippling in the cutout regions so this feature was not limited to Schwerin, (although this find included Schwerin 2nd pattern U-Boat clasps so there was a link between Berlin and Gablonz production).

All this is to say that the stippling on the 5-feather U-boat die posted by John T. at least can be seen in wartime products.

[Norm F]

For comparison, a fake planchet from Snyder's Treasures and a post-war 1960's S&L Legion Condor Tank Badge planchet -- no stippling.

[Norm F]

Planchet of an S&L '57 Hilfskreuzer (previously posted by Martin W.) which is remarkably like the straight-wave Minesweeper planchet in the previous post. Regardless of whether a genuine '57 or not, certainly post-war (and no stippling).

[BubbaZ]

Hi Norm,
Very interesting observations
For the moment it means that both types of dies, stippled and plain, could be used in the war time and post war IMO.
What do you say about this planchet, does it have a chance to be wartime? It comes from a 'plain' die as far as I can see. Base material looks very off here.
Cheers,
Hubert

[BubbaZ]

more

[BubbaZ]

These look more like made of zinc and they seem to come out of plain die as well?
Cheers,
Hubert

[BubbaZ]

other three

[BubbaZ]

more

[BubbaZ]

one more zincer, also plain die.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

For the moment it means that both types of dies, stippled and plain, could be used in the war time and post war IMO.

Hi Hubert,

Well, so far we have proof of stippling in wartime (AS in triangle) and proof of smooth texture in post-war S&L production, and that's all. Everything else posted so far is conjecture so we still need more evidence.

What do you say about this planchet, does it have a chance to be wartime? It comes from a 'plain' die as far as I can see. Base material looks very off here.

Like you say, that U-Boat clasp planchet appears to be a copper-based base metal so it's definitely not normal production. The detail is excellent so possibly struck from an original obverse die (without the reverse die), but when is anyone's guess. It looks like there may indeed be some stippling to the regions of the internal cutouts.

It's hard to draw any conclusions from those low-resolution images of unattributed "flatback" zinc KM badge planchets.

Best regards,
---Norm

P.S. To be clear, the stippled areas under discussion here are only the regions of the internal cutouts of war badges, never on the external flashing.

[colt45s]

Silver U Boat badge ? GOLD badge ? whats the difference ?

[Norm F]

Silver U Boat badge ? GOLD badge ? whats the difference ?

Hi colt45s,

It's not a question of grade for that U-Boat clasp (there's no such thing as gold grade); it's just a question of base metal. These were made only in zinc (both the bronze and silver grades), not Tombak. Of course an untrimmed planchet would not yet have any finish so that "gold" colour is from the copper-based base metal.

Best regards,
---Norm

[all1knew]

another I got this week coincidentally.

William Kramer

[all1knew]

I do not think this was some elaborate ploy to sneak in a fake.

William Kramer