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    #1

    Otto Schickle U-Boat Timeline

    Presented here is a timeline classification system for the Otto Schickle U-Boat badge to go along with our Schwerin, Juncker, Meybauer and S&L U-Boat timeline systems. My thanks (and apologies) to all those whose previously posted images I've borrowed for this presentation. Studies like this are possible only due to the material posted by the collecting community in the forums over the past 10 years. First some pre-amble and then the classification system will follow.

    This design represents one of the most common of the nine makers of Tombak U-Boat badges, suggesting that after Schwerin, this was likely an official award piece for the Kriegsmarine in the first part of the war.

    The attribution of this U-Boat design to Schickle was confirmed by the June 1940 catalog previously posted by Gordon Williamson. This Schickle catalog was acquired by Gordon from Helmut Weitze in 2004. It consisted of three parts, a November 1938 "Katalog", a June 1940 "Katalog II" which continued right on from the first with continuing page numbers, and six separate large fold-out supplement pages with separate yet professionally printed page numbers. Both the 1940 "Katalog II" and the supplementary fold-out page "No. 2" show this U-Boat badge, and the supplement also shows the Schickle Minesweeper and Destroyer badges. In addition to this, Gordon Williamson has previously stated that he handled a Tombak example marked L/15 by Schickle, although one has yet to be posted on the forums.

    Best regards,
    ---Norm
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Norm F; 03-10-2019, 12:26 PM.
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    #2
    catalog evidence

    Here is a low resolution enlargement of the air-brushed Schickle catalog image seen next to an example of the Schickle design U-Boat, clearly of the same design. As well, supplement page No. 2 shows all the Schickle-made Kriegsmarine badges; a clear enlargement of the U-Boat from that page is shown in Gordon Williamson's ""Torpedo Los" on page 183.

    All of the badges presented in this thread, from Tombak to zinc production, utilize an identical obverse design as well as hardware combinations that are found on other Schickle products. There is a high likelihood Schickle was responsible for all of the Tombak production of this design and possibly the later zinc production as well, since apparently he was already working with zinc in his EK2 cores and wound badges prior to his disbarment from 3rd Reich awards manufacture in June 1941.

    Whether or not Schickle was the producer of all the zinc variants is unknown, and anything is possible if he left a lot of incomplete leftovers that others might get their hands on. However the hardware application matches that seen on other Schickle products and differs from the that seen on known products by his fellow Pforzheim manufacturers.

    In the end, regardless of who may have contributed to their finishing, all these variants belong in the same classification system for the "Schickle design" since they all were apparently produced on the same tooling.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Norm F; 08-24-2013, 07:56 PM.

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      #3
      The Classification Table

      So here now is the classification Table. The first decimal sub-types are based upon hardware variants. The second decimal place sub-types of Type 2.4 are based upon differences in hand cutting of the swastika and secondary maker marks.

      Type 1: Tombak, hollow
      round-wire main pin, wide sheet metal hinge without flanges, rounded stamped sheet metal catch

      Type 2: Tombak, solid
      2.1: round-wire main pin, wide sheet metal hinge without flanges, classic round-topped stamped sheet metal catch
      2.2: coke bottle-shaped pin, vertically mounted block hinge, spiral stamped sheet metal catch
      2.3: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, round-wire catch with flattened base
      2.4: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, "P-shaped" stamped sheet metal catch
      2.4.1 - solid swastika
      2.4.2 - three cut-out arms on swastika
      2.4.3 - three cut-out arms on swastika, pin stamped "L/18" by B.H. Mayer
      2.4.4 - four cut-out arms on swastika
      2.4.5 - four cut-out arms on swastika, pin stamped "L/52" by C.F. Zimmermann

      Type 3: zinc, solid
      3.1: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, classic round-topped stamped sheet metal catch
      3.2: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, "P-shaped" stamped sheet metal catch
      3.3: coke bottle-shaped pin, hollow barrel hinge; classic round-topped stamped sheet metal catch
      3.4: coke bottle-shaped pin, hollow barrel hinge; "P-shaped" stamped sheet metal catch

      As mentioned before, there are no discernible die differences across the spectrum of variants of the solid version. The rest of the thread will present examples and some discussion.
      Last edited by Norm F; 08-23-2013, 07:19 PM.

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        #4
        Type 1

        Originally posted by Norm F View Post
        Type 1: Tombak, hollow
        round-wire main pin, wide sheet metal hinge without flanges, rounded stamped sheet metal catch
        The hollow variant is the most rare and the hardest to find photos for. This example was from Gordon Williamson's old website which has subsequently been discontinued. The reverse setup is the same as on the Schickle-attributed "1st pattern" wound badge.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by Norm F; 08-23-2013, 09:22 PM.

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          #5
          Type 2.1

          Originally posted by Norm F View Post
          Type 2: Tombak, solid
          2.1: round-wire main pin, wide sheet metal hinge without flanges, classic round-topped stamped sheet metal catch
          The Type 2 is divided into four sub-types based upon reverse hardware. Type 2.1 has the same hardware as was seen on the hollow Type 1.
          Attached Files

          Comment

            #6
            similar setup on wound badges

            The marked "2nd pattern" wound badges of Otto Schickle have a reverse setup basically the same as the Type 2.1 but the sheet metal hinge is less wide, more in proportion to the narrower badge design. The same round-topped stamped sheet metal catch is seen which is classic for Schickle products.
            Attached Files

            Comment

              #7
              Type 2.2

              Originally posted by Norm F View Post
              Type 2: Tombak, solid
              2.2: coke bottle-shaped pin, vertically mounted block hinge, spiral stamped sheet metal catch
              Type 2.2 evolves to the use of a block hinge and wide pin. The setup is very much like that on seen on Schickle's Spanish Cross but the block hinge is mounted vertically instead of prone. They share the distinctive spiral catch.
              Attached Files

              Comment

                #8
                Type 2.3

                Originally posted by Norm F View Post
                Type 2: Tombak, solid
                2.3: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, round-wire catch with flattened base
                Now the hinge block is mounted prone and combined with a round-wire catch which is characteristically flattened at the soldered end.
                Attached Files

                Comment

                  #9
                  same setup on the Schickle Destroyer

                  The Type 2.3 setup is the exact combination used on the rarely L/15-marked Schickle Destroyer badge (whose obverse also matches the Schickle catalog supplement image).
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Type 2.4

                    Originally posted by Norm F View Post
                    Type 2: Tombak, solid
                    2.4: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, "P-shaped" stamped sheet metal catch
                    Type 2.4 is the most common setup found on the Schickle design Tombak U-Boat, consisting of the block hinge combined with the stock "P-shaped" catch. Considering the high numbers that are found this was probably an officially awarded KM badge.
                    This same setup can be found also at times on the Schickle design Destroyer and Minesweeper badges.

                    The further sub-types of the Type 2.4 that follow are based upon variation in the final steps of hand finishing of the swastika and marking.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Type 2.4.1

                      Originally posted by Norm F View Post
                      Type 2: Tombak, solid
                      2.4: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, "P-shaped" stamped sheet metal catch
                      2.4.1 - solid swastika
                      This variation with solid swastika is quite rare since as a general rule at least 3 arms of the swastika were cut out in the factory.
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Type 2.4.2

                        Originally posted by Norm F View Post
                        Type 2: Tombak, solid
                        2.4: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, "P-shaped" stamped sheet metal catch
                        2.4.2 - three cut-out arms on swastika
                        This is by far the most commonly found Tombak variant.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Type 2.4.3

                          Originally posted by Norm F View Post
                          Type 2: Tombak, solid
                          2.4: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, "P-shaped" stamped sheet metal catch
                          2.4.3 - three cut-out arms on swastika, pin stamped "L/18" by B.H. Mayer
                          There are several instances where Tombak Schickle design Kriegsmarine and Heer awards were obtained and stamped "L/18" by B.H. Mayer and the U-Boat is one of these cases. (More explanation in the next post).
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                            #14
                            L/18 explained

                            In mid-1941, Schickle was forbidden by the Präsidialkanzlei from further production of 3rd Reich era awards. However, regarding the disposition of their remaining stock came this announcement published in "Uniformen-Markt", July 1941:

                            "Die Firma Otto Schickle, Pforzheim, hat die Genehmigung erhalten, ihre noch auf Lager befindlichen Erzeugnisse in Orden und Ehrenzeichen des Dritten Reichs durch Vermittelung der Leistungsgemeinschaft der Deutschen Ordenhersteller, die die Qualitätsprüfung vornehmen wird, in den Handel zu bringen. Die Leistungsgemeinschaft hat die Durchführung des Ausverkaufs der Industrie- und Handelskammer Pforzheim übertragen."

                            which translates as:

                            "The company Otto Schickle, Pforzheim, has received approval to bring to market their remaining stock in medals and decorations of the Third Reich through the mediation of the Leistungsgemeinschaft der Deutschen Ordenhersteller (LDO), which will carry out the quality check. The LDO has entrusted the implementation of the sell-off to the Pforzheim Chamber of Commerce."

                            The president of the Pforzheim Chamber of Commerce at the time was Arthur Barth, owner of the competing manufacturing firm of Foerster & Barth and member of the collective of Pforzheim makers known as the "Liefergemeinschaft Deutscher Orden und Ehrenzeichen, Pforzheim" along with B.H. Mayer and C.F. Zimmermann. This explains the awards shown here which are Schickle products but acquired and stamped by B.H. Mayer and Foerster & Barth after LDO approval.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Type 2.4.4

                              Originally posted by Norm F View Post
                              Type 2: Tombak, solid
                              2.4: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, "P-shaped" stamped sheet metal catch
                              2.4.4 - four cut-out arms on swastika
                              This variation has all four arms of the swastika cut out.
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

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