Juncker U-Boat Timeline

[vonStubben]

Are the non firegilded examples (1.1.2) original? I ask because I have seen this type posted as reproductions.

I have been looking for a Juncker sub badge for some time now and know a local dealer who has three of this type for sale at a couple hundred dollars each but I'm leery of them.

[BubbaZ]

Hi Norm,
Here is another very rare 3.2 zincer and it very interestingly also misses a flag...
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

Are the non firegilded examples (1.1.2) original? I ask because I have seen this type posted as reproductions.

I have been looking for a Juncker sub badge for some time now and know a local dealer who has three of this type for sale at a couple hundred dollars each but I'm leery of them.

Hi vonStubben,

The examples of 1.1.2 in post #3 are original early Junckers. It turns out that the one that was shown only in reverse in that comparison was posted previously on GMIC so here's another shot showing the obverse as well. They would have had fire gilding to begin with but these are worn badges (and I think the colour is quite washed out on this photo as well). The other example from that compilation in post #3 was previously posted by Patrick W in this thread.

Could you please post images of one of the badges from your loacal dealer to see if it's the same type or not?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Hi Norm,
Here is another very rare 3.2 zincer and it very interestingly also misses a flag...
Cheers,
Hubert

Hi Hubert,

Thanks for posting that example. There's also an intact example in "The Kriegsmarine Awards" on page 58.

Best regards,
---Norm

[JustinG]

Norm, this is a wonderful study of these badges. Quite impressive. We all appreciate the time it takes to compose such a comprehensive study of an award like this. It is greatly appreciated and really helps tie all the subtle differences to myself and to many others. Kudos to you sir.

The Juncker eagle and sub badge is indeed, my favorite design for all U-boat badges.
I hope to own a nice Juncker Sub badge soon.

Best regards,
JustinG

[vonStubben]

Hi vonStubben,

The examples of 1.1.2 in post #3 are original early Junckers. It turns out that the one that was shown only in reverse in that comparison was posted previously on GMIC so here's another shot showing the obverse as well. They would have had fire gilding to begin with but these are worn badges (and I think the colour is quite washed out on this photo as well). The other example from that compilation in post #3 was previously posted by Patrick W in this thread.

Could you please post images of one of the badges from your loacal dealer to see if it's the same type or not?

Best regards,
---Norm

As soon as I see him again I will.

Chuck

[BubbaZ]

Hi Hubert,

Thanks for posting that example. There's also an intact example in "The Kriegsmarine Awards" on page 58.

Best regards,
---Norm

Thanks Norm
That's what I should do first - look into the reference book
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

...and Norm, do not forget about S&Ls

Here you go, Hubert.

Steinhauer & Lück U-Boat Timeline

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

Here you go, Hubert.

Steinhauer & Lück U-Boat Timeline

Best regards,
---Norm

Thanks a lot Norm!
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

Hi vonStubben,

The examples of 1.1.2 in post #3 are original early Junckers.

Best regards,
---Norm

Hi Guys,

I have to amend my earlier comment about the 1.1.2 examples in post #3. The top example is indeed original, but the bottom example I had originally used (which I presume is the type Chuck (vonStubben) was questioning) was indeed a high quality reproduction. I've now gone back and swapped in an original cutout 1.1.2 in post #3 to avoid confusion, and included the fake example in this post below.

See this thread for the explanation:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=611595
In a nutshell, there are subtle differences in the obverse details of this "highly cut out version" (as Hans Kondor dubbed them) that distinguish them from the correct 1.1.2, and they actually match the fakes in the other thread with the odd rounded-pin setup. They could also be called the "curved toe" fake.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Nick Carraway]

Superior thread and great info. That is one very well made fake! thanks for all the hard work. Now that I know what to look for it will be interesting to look for at shows.

[BubbaZ]

Hi Norm,
What would you say about this one? The finish and wear pattern seems convincing but very odd hardware for the zinc Juncker... Another well made fake?
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

Hi Norm,
What would you say about this one? The finish and wear pattern seems convincing but very odd hardware for the zinc Juncker... Another well made fake?
Cheers,
Hubert

Hi Hubert,

Pictures aren't great, so no doubt it would be easier to tell with good high resolution views and/or in hand inspection, but I don't think this is zinc. This is supposed to be a Tombak Type 1.2.1 but the hand cutouts are especially crude.

The main pin is a "replacement" and yet has the same finish as the reverse, so I'd say either this is a heavily worn and abused Tombak original with replaced pin that was refinished at some point, or it's a fake. I think we need better views to be more definitive.

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

Another example of a 1.2.1 in the timeline. John

[BubbaZ]

Another example of a 1.2.1 in the timeline. John

Beautiful tombak Juncker
Cheers,
Hubert