Opinions on U Boat badge--possible S&L Type 2 zinc

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks Norm. Nicolai and mrg for posting your really nice badge. Norm I found your explanation of the type 1 and 2 dyes very interesting and well illustrated with your annotated photographs, which meant that even a novice like me could understand.
I can see what you mean by the hinge and catches, the S&l catch looks very similar indeed. I had to look very carefully at the hinge in your last photograph because of the difference in the shape of the pin.
I might sound a bit of an idiot, but were Tombak badges late war, Zinc before that, then another metal at the beginning?
Thanks,
Peter.

[mrg]

Hi Peter Tombac is early war, zinc mid-late war. Regards



Hi Norm yes that is a groove line. Regards

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks mrg
Peter.

[BubbaZ]

Hi Peter,
It depends on the maker but usually second half of 1942 is considered to be the moment of transition from tombak to zinc as a result of copper shortages.
Kind regards,
Hubert

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks Hubert. I assume Tomback is an alloy of copper and zinc, then they used pure zinc.
Thanks,
Peter.

[BubbaZ]

Hi Peter,
It is an alloy of copper and zinc with copper contribution of 80% or more.
Cheers,
Hubert

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks Hubert,
Peter.

[Norm F]

Just to add to this thread on the S&L attribution of these zinc U-boats, here is an example of this type of badge (but with the more common flat wire catch) from the Lüdenscheid souvenir board that sold on e-Medals site a while back.

[Norm F]

And near the end of this 25-page thread from 2008 on these Lüdenscheid souvenir boards, Leroy posted this interesting information. Note the last paragraph:

I ... found this excerpt (on Amazon.com UK) (also courtesy of Google!) from Alan Beadle's 2002 book on German awards. Although Beadle (who I have never personally dealt with) certainly has a chequered reputation on this and other forums, the following recital is very interesting, especially as it tends to mirror exactly what Bob Hritz has told us about the types of boards which started this thread:

(All from "GERMAN COMBAT AWARDS 1935-1945"-ISBN-10: 0954385101 )

QUOTE:
With the end of the Second World War in Germany in May 1945, large numbers
of German Orders and Medals were destined to fall into Allied hands. These
were to come from two sources: those taken directly from prisoners and the
dead and those from factories, shops and military stores. Of the great
medal producing centres of Lüdenscheid and Gablonz, Lüdenscheid, whilst
originally captured by the Americans, passed into the British Zone of
Occupation, whereas Gablonz ceased being a German town, became Czech and
then almost vanished from the post war medal manufacture and collecting
scene.

The factories of Lüdenscheid suffered some looting by US troops but, once
the tide of war had passed through and life in the ruins resumed some
degree of normality, the badge manufacturers began to realise that their
remaining stocks of German awards were popular souvenir items, particularly
with the British troops. As a result, display boards of badges were
produced. The firm of Steinhauer and Lück was a prime producer of these.

Normally on grey or brown card, these boards consisted on average of 15
badges and medals. The awards themselves were often numbered on the board
below and a written description on Steinhauer and Lück headed paper
accompanied the board. It would seem that the more you paid the bigger the
boards and the more numerous the awards you received. Some wooden boards
contained 50 different awards, including Knight's Crosses and Spanish
Crosses with the description neatly engraved on brass plaques below. In
the past these boards have often been described as "Salesmen's Sample
Boards" which they never were. One sure way of recognising them is by the
use of miniature size ribbons on full size awards.
...
Meanwhile, back in Lüdenscheid, business was booming. The boards sold by
Steinhauer and Lück contained examples of their products, but also pieces
from other Lüdenscheid manufacturers who had made awards not produced by
Steinhauer and Lück, such as the GWL (Gebrüder Wegerhoff Lüdenscheid)
Luftwaffe Ground Combat Badges. As a result, certain unmarked awards on
Steinhauer and Lück cards cannot be assigned to this factory, although some
badges, such as the unmarked U-Boat Badge with wide vertical pin is taken
to be a Steinhauer and Lück production.
ENDQUOTE

I cannot personally vouch for this information, but it certainly seems to fall in line with what we have all been discussing.

That book was from 2002; What's old is new again.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Here's another example, this one from John T.'s site. This one's unusual in that it has a cutout swastika.

[John R.]

Thanks Norm.

[peterwyndavies]

Hi Norm,
Thank you very much for posting such interesting further information.
Thanks,
Peter.

[Norm F]

Here's another example, this one from the so-called S&L salesman's case that was on Helmut Weitze's site a while back.

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks again Norm for posting this extra example.
Peter.

[Norm F]

Dug these two examples out of a WAF thread from 2004. It turns out there is even the occasional rare zinc example with S&L's "4"-marked wide pin and block hinge from their EK1 stock (see comparison). Blurry pictures but nice confirmation.

Best regards,
---Norm