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    #106
    It seems to be the same problem as with the different sawfish badges for the small battle arms units of the Kriegsmarine.
    One of the most famous (perhaps the most famous?!) K-men – Walther Gerhold – made four combat missions with a one-man-torpedo, but never got even the lowest grade, whiule you could find lorry drivers, mechanics etc. who got the badge. The logistic did not always work!

    Comment

      #107
      Originally posted by markus View Post
      Gefreiter Bruno Sutkus achieved 209 confirmed kills on the Eastern Front.

      In his book "Im Fadenkreuz - Tagebuch eines Scharfschuetzen" (Munin-Verlag) he writes: "On November 21, 1944, I was awarded the Sniper Badge, 3rd grade (Gold). I had achieved the required 60 kills already since quite some time. For this high decoration for snipers I was given a preliminary award certificate. The award itself, the Sniper badge in cloth, I never received. (Page 43)

      Markus

      Hi,

      once again, I am not commenting on the Sniper badge, but on the award process... i have WW1 groups from 1918 where men got just the Award certificate with the promise of a cross at a later date, because of supply problems.... and groups where the Guy got the cross, and a note saying he would get the award document at a later date, when time permits....

      IMHO it certainly does not prove or disprove the existence of an award, as we know, there were millions of Iron crosses in existence in 1918... but in some cases simply not where they were needed.

      It stands to reason that such a rare badge as the sniper one, if made during the war, was also not found ready and waiting in every Regiments storeroom....

      Comment

        #108
        Originally posted by Gary Symonds View Post
        Mike:

        If Chris Pittman say there is a "consenus," then by god, he must be right! Please don't dare question the collective mentality.

        Afterall, weren't they right about 6 strand SS cuff titles being fake? Remember the old saying "7 is heaven."

        Please don't think for yourself. It is against WAF protocol.
        Gary, I find your tenacious defense of the originality of your badge despite all the reasonable arguments to the contrary to be endearing. Your stubborn refusal to accept viewpoints that detract from your treasured collectible displays a sort of loyalty rarely seen in these times. Don't stop believing!

        Comment

          #109
          U Tube :
          Attached Files

          Comment

            #110
            Originally posted by chen View Post
            U Tube :
            I think we all agree that's the well-known bad post-war fake.

            Would not recommend "You-Tube" or "Wikipedia" or as such the internet as a credible and reliable source of information.

            Markus

            Comment

              #111
              Just to make some order to this discussion.

              At the beginning the badge was institued, but the first design was never used.
              This was the announcement of the institution of the Sniper Badge award in the Uniformen-Markt.
              Attached Files

              My books:

              - THE WEHRPAß & SOLDBUCH OF THE WH
              - THE SS TK RING
              - THE ITALIAN-GERMAN MEDAL
              - THE ANTI PARTISAN BADGE
              - THE AWARDS OF THE LW

              and more!

              sigpic

              Comment

                #112
                The design changed during the war.
                Attached Files

                My books:

                - THE WEHRPAß & SOLDBUCH OF THE WH
                - THE SS TK RING
                - THE ITALIAN-GERMAN MEDAL
                - THE ANTI PARTISAN BADGE
                - THE AWARDS OF THE LW

                and more!

                sigpic

                Comment

                  #113
                  And after the war the sniper badge was still used in BW.

                  This photo is taken from page 197 of the book "Orden und Ehrenzeichen in der Bundesrepublik Deutschland" by Johannes Ottinger.
                  Attached Files

                  My books:

                  - THE WEHRPAß & SOLDBUCH OF THE WH
                  - THE SS TK RING
                  - THE ITALIAN-GERMAN MEDAL
                  - THE ANTI PARTISAN BADGE
                  - THE AWARDS OF THE LW

                  and more!

                  sigpic

                  Comment

                    #114
                    Originally posted by Antonio Scapini View Post
                    The design changed during the war.
                    Correct.

                    Earliest publication (Design-drawing) September 1944...!

                    Which makes it very difficult for proof of the existence of the physical badge to emerge on the basis of photographic material.

                    @ Ludwig: When was the K-Abzeichen instituted and when was it issued. If I remember correctly, in the case of that badge photographic proof does sufficiently exist. Can we draw parallels between a Sniper Badge and the KK-Mittel badge?

                    Markus

                    Comment

                      #115
                      Same badge you can find in '60...
                      Attached Files

                      My books:

                      - THE WEHRPAß & SOLDBUCH OF THE WH
                      - THE SS TK RING
                      - THE ITALIAN-GERMAN MEDAL
                      - THE ANTI PARTISAN BADGE
                      - THE AWARDS OF THE LW

                      and more!

                      sigpic

                      Comment

                        #116
                        And these were authorized from the BW (as far as I know).
                        Attached Files

                        My books:

                        - THE WEHRPAß & SOLDBUCH OF THE WH
                        - THE SS TK RING
                        - THE ITALIAN-GERMAN MEDAL
                        - THE ANTI PARTISAN BADGE
                        - THE AWARDS OF THE LW

                        and more!

                        sigpic

                        Comment

                          #117
                          Originally posted by Gary Symonds View Post
                          When I was a beginning collector in 1993, I went to my first MAX Show, which was in Baltimore.

                          I was at a table looking at some guy's stuff. He asked me how long I had been collecting, and I told him "two years."

                          He said, "whatever you do, don't collect cloth." Wise advice. I should have listened to the guy. Oh well.

                          As I initially posted in this thread, I was aware there is no consenus whatsoever regarding the Sniper Badge.

                          Even the "accepted originals" could have been made after the war.

                          There is no more evidence that the so called "accepted originals" being machine embroidered, are period, than my "fake" hand embroidered sniper badge.

                          Each experienced collector is left to his own opinion, which is as valid as the next experienced collector's opinion.
                          My thoughts exactly!!!!! The "accepted originals" don't look much like known original sleeve insignia of the period in my opinion. I would not have one in my collection unless it was purchased from a junk box for .50 cents at a yard sale.

                          Can anyone show us a known period insignia with the same exact construction as the "accepted original"... anyone? I didn't thing so.
                          Last edited by 101combatvet; 02-14-2014, 11:52 AM.

                          Comment

                            #118
                            .
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                              #119
                              ..
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

                                #120
                                Originally posted by Antonio Scapini View Post
                                And these were authorized from the BW (as far as I know).

                                Link for the sniper badge produced postwar as a copy, but not for wear by BW soldiers:

                                http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=sniper+badge


                                "Speedytop" writes on Aug. 13, 2013:

                                QTE
                                Hi Markus,

                                the sniper badge was never produced for the Bundeswehr, like all the other pieces.
                                All these pieces were produced for the free market, the copies and the 1957 versions.
                                Everybody could buy these pieces.
                                The KKBw sold them to soldiers and members of the BGS (Bundesgrenzschutz).

                                The sniper badge was produced as a copy (in German = Kopie), but I think, that there was no real demand (see my comment on the "Kriegsverdienstmedaille").

                                The sniper badge, the "Krim, Demjansk, etc." were allowed to wear, but not in the full size on the uniform (we can see some of them on a few very early pictures, but never officially allowed).

                                Uwe
                                UNQTE

                                Comment

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