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**Willi Z.** · 02-21-2014, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by markus View Post

Willi -

And don't forget the real historians who could not care less for collectibles. IMO most of the time a more valuable and true source of information. Unfortunately collectors are blinded and confused by a lot of egoistic influences...

Markus

Of course Markus. I agree with you. But some have studied this their entire life and collect as well.

**jacquesf** · 02-24-2014, 10:33 AM

I have been communicating with Peter von Lukacz regarding the Weissinger group and its origen. Here is his reply,

" but only one badge was with the Group, the first grade which was written in the SB.

I know the IAB and Think it was a WB as well.....

It came directly from the family!

I don´t Think anyone can get more proof then already around.I had someother Groups like the SS one.

I am sure the badge was issued during the war. maybee not many got it, but it was for sure made and issued

Peter"

**markus** · 02-24-2014, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by jacquesf View Post

I have been communicating with Peter von Lukacz regarding the Weissinger group and its origen. Here is his reply,

" but only one badge was with the Group, the first grade which was written in the SB.

I know the IAB and Think it was a WB as well.....

It came directly from the family!

I don´t Think anyone can get more proof then already around.I had someother Groups like the SS one.

I am sure the badge was issued during the war. maybee not many got it, but it was for sure made and issued

Peter"

Gents--

A couple of corrections...

The badge with the group when offered and sold to me by PvL was the basic grade, not gold. The SB instead had an inscription of the III. (third) grade.

Peter offered the badge as " I believe it's a post-war produced" badge, as per his original offering.

I remember asking him in 2003 when I bought it and he mentioned it came from (a show) in Germany...I might have the email still.

Last not least, there was no WP with it either....

Hope this serves as a little clarification.

No provenance for these groups no matter how we twist and turn them...

Cheers from the 2014 ATP Tennis Open in Acapulco! (I'm sitting next to John Isner for breakfast!)

Markus

**Antonio Scapini** · 02-24-2014, 12:25 PM

Markus I asked as you told me to a couple of well known and big german dealers and they told me these badges were produced during the war with no doubt.
They also told me the speculation and the wrong hypotesis surfaced only in these years as in the past no one has ever doubted about.

**jacquesf** · 02-24-2014, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by markus View Post

Gents--

A couple of corrections...

The badge with the group when offered and sold to me by PvL was the basic grade, not gold. The SB instead had an inscription of the III. (third) grade.

Peter offered the badge as " I believe it's a post-war produced" badge, as per his original offering.

I remember asking him in 2003 when I bought it and he mentioned it came from (a show) in Germany...I might have the email still.

Last not least, there was no WP with it either....

Hope this serves as a little clarification.

No provenance for these groups no matter how we twist and turn them...

Cheers from the 2014 ATP Tennis Open in Acapulco! (I'm sitting next to John Isner for breakfast!)

Markus

And you just happened to fail to mention this when you sold it or commented on the group later. J

**markus** · 02-24-2014, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Antonio Scapini View Post

Markus I asked as you told me to a couple of well known and big german dealers and they told me these badges were produced during the war with no doubt.
They also told me the speculation and the wrong hypotesis surfaced only in these years as in the past no one has ever doubted about.

Hi Antonio!

Thanks for asking the big dealers. I'm so relieved that they told you they are all period original. I used to almost work for one there when I lived in Hamburg as a student and had quite the oppositie impression...in the 90ies these dealers sold the other sniper badges still (now believed to be fakes).

Cheers!
Markus

**markus** · 02-24-2014, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by jacquesf View Post

And you just happened to fail to mention this when you sold it or commented on the group later. J

I was convinced these were good. Niemann, etc all gave thumbs up.

All other terms are private and confidential in the interest of the buyer.

Are you having doubts these are originals?

Markus

**Thomas Durante** · 02-24-2014, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by markus View Post

offered the badge as " I believe it's a post-war produced" badge, as per his original offering.

Wow, that is big news, I would like to know what Peter V L has to say to that. Can you ask him Jacques since you seem to have had some recent contact with him?

Thanks

Tom

**jacquesf** · 02-24-2014, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by markus View Post

I was convinced these were good. Niemann, etc all gave thumbs up.

All other terms are private and confidential in the interest of the buyer.

Are you having doubts these are originals?

Markus

I am having doubts about you? J

**jacquesf** · 02-24-2014, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Thomas Durante View Post

Wow, that is big news, I would like to know what Peter V L has to say to that. Can you ask him Jacques since you seem to have had some recent contact with him?

Thanks

Tom

I have asked PvL to comment on this, in this thread. J

**Thomas Durante** · 02-24-2014, 01:01 PM

Thanks Jacques.

Tom

**jacquesf** · 02-24-2014, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by markus View Post

I was convinced these were good. Niemann, etc all gave thumbs up.

All other terms are private and confidential in the interest of the buyer.

Are you having doubts these are originals?

Markus

this is what you said in post 35 of this same tread

" I owned the Weissinger group and Soldbuch for many years until I finally switched everything to collecting LAH exclusively.

Looking back I was never sure whether the badges had actually been a part of the group right from the begining. I doubt it honestly."

**markus** · 02-24-2014, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by jacquesf View Post

I am having doubts about you? J

Don't have Jacques, clear conscious. The group was thoroughly vetted at the time, to the full satisfaction of all parties involved. This is obviously why I'm freely talking about it here. I changed my opinion on these badges years after the sale and tried to buy everything back from you some years ago, don't forget.

**Antonio Scapini** · 02-24-2014, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by markus View Post

Hi Antonio!

Thanks for asking the big dealers. I'm so relieved that they told you they are all period original. I used to almost work for one there when I lived in Hamburg as a student and had quite the oppositie impression...in the 90ies these dealers sold the other sniper badges still (now believed to be fakes).

Cheers!
Markus

I forgot: they told me they don't want to be involved in stupid discussion created on stupid hypothesis.

So, or they all are liar, or really all these "problems" surfaced only in these years. And now the answer IMO is day by day increasingly clearer.

I'm curious also to know Peter's reply.

**Peter v L** · 02-25-2014, 03:21 AM

Josef Weissinger

Here are the original sales text and original pic from the time the group was sold.

It is more then 10 years ago, so qulity of pic is very bad. This is however what was in it and what we sold.

The group came via one of our pickers in Germany /Stuttgart) directly from the family.
___________

.<O

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Josef Weissinger was assigned to the I.R 135 on the 4´th off December 1939 according to his soldbuch. Later in the war sometime during 1944 he was assigned to Grenadier Regiment 187, and got training as a sniper. He was awarded Infantery Assaultbadge in Silver, Iron Cross 2´nd and 1´st class, Woundbadge in Black, Silver and Gold, and also the very rare Snipers badge 3´d class. The entry for the Scharfschützen Abzeichen is authenticated/confrimed by Ober Leutnant Heinrich Bergerfurth who won the Deutsches Kreuz in Gold 22.3.1945 as Kompanie Chef 6/Grenadier Regiment 184. The Soldbuch which is included in this group, is possibly the only Snipers soldbuch which still exist today. Even though the Soldbuch is missing the Photo and is in very bad condition, it is EXTREMLY RARE.<O

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Group consists of the following items.<O

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<O

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1. Soldbuch, with all awards written in to it, also the Snipers badge 3´d class, also on the page for special equippment is written in Cammo smock, Helmet Cammo cover, Snipers sight etc. Soldbuch was issued Dec 1939, and was worn all the war, and one can see it went through a lot. There are burnmarks, bloodstains, loose pages. Some stamps and front cover have been denazifyed. On second page there is also stampings from French prisoncamp.<O

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<O

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2. The acctuall cover the Soldbuch allways was worn in.<O

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<O

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3. Document for woundbadge in black, folded once.<O

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<O

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4. Document for Woundbadge in gold, folded twice, and it have split in two parts.<O

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<O

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5. Document for Infantery Assaultbadge in silver, folded once.All documents have been worn with the soldbuch folded and placed in the cover.<O

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6. Infantery Assaultbadge in Silver, unmarked, catch is broken.<O

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<O

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7. Snipers badge 3´d class. This badge was with the group, when it came from the estate, butI can not with 100% certainity say it is original, or a 1957 issue. My guess is however that it was made after the war.<O

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This is really a Extremly Rare group, and something like it will not be easily found again.

<O

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