New Addition - Possible maker connection - Rettenmaier = "Flatback" Maker

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Here is a recent pick up I would like to show. Its a pretty ordinary "flatback" or "broken stem" IAB, but with a twist. It has a very unique catch that I don't believe has been seen on one of these flatback badges before. It has become known as a "Pforzheim style catch" because many badge makers in the Pforzheim/Stuttgart area use it. It is a very interesting development because for quite some time some of us have suspected that these "flatback" badges were produced in the Pforzheim/Stuttgart area and I believe this is another piece of evidence that we are on the right track.

Here is a very good thread on the subject:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...eet+vet+pickup

Whoever the maker was, they were quite prolific as the "flatback" badges span all three branches of the Wehrmacht (they made IABs, GABs, PABs, Flaks, Kriegs Destroyer, Minesweeper, HSF, Coastal Artillery, Auxiliar Cruiser, LW ROAGs, Flaks, etc.). They must have been quite a large producer IMO.

Several of these flatback badges were vet acquire and can be traced to the Pforzheim/Stuttgart area (see the above thread for an example of this).

Narvik shields that match the one found in the above vet thread were also ground dug found in Pforzheim area.

A very good candidate for the maker of these is Alois Rettenmaier. According to Frank Heukemes, the Rettenmaier firm was going through bankruptcy and one of the items found in their stocks was a "flatback" GAB!

And perhaps one of the most strongest links to Rettenmaier is the left-facing catch. While many makers used the "Pforzheim Style" catches, the only one that has a left facing catch is Rettenmaier (i.e., their EK1s have left-facing catches). I think we can all agree that a left facing catch is quite a rare occurance on any Third Reich badge, but it is a pretty consistent feature to be found on all "flatback" badges. The fact the Rettenmaier-marked badges also feature left facing catches is a very tangible link to this firm in my opinion.

Taking all this circumstantial evidence together, I think it is a good arguement for Rettenmaier as a likely candidate for the flatback badges. Rettenmaier was located in Schwabish-Gmund, only 60 miles from Pforzheim. They also had both their PK and LDO licenses and is logical for shear number of flatback badges we see on the market.

Tom

[Panzercracker]

I think this also illustrates that the bronze IABs were quite often made to a higher standard than their silver grade counterparts. Never seen one with this style of catch, but certainly original --and the quality of strike and finish is 2nd to none, regardless whoever the maker is, or might be proven to be. Great pick-up Tom.

--Ken

[Hans Kondor]

Interesting observation Tom, I like it very much!

[Blued]

Another fine piece Tom. The finish on this piece has definitely stood the test of time. Nicely done.

And I like the power of deduction on the maker. All makes logical sense

[Nick Carraway]

Very interesting Tom! I remember talking to Frank about this a long while back. Great memory and good connection. It shows just how much we need to takes holistic view to this hobby. Well done

[Graeme]

Hi Tom

Congrats on aquiring such a nice Bronze example.. with all the finish intact

I have seen this set up on the same design in Bronze before, so it is not unique, but I agree not common.

Of all the points that you make in your post, If the EXACT catch set up seen on this IAB, can be found on a known manufacturers badge, then imo, this would be the strongest link. And even I would be quite excited ! When I looked some time back, I could not find the exact set up. Can you please post the left facing catch set up on a marked Rettenmaier badge.

Rettenmaier have used a catch that looks like the one you posted but without the catch plate (hopefully you have found one with a catch plate). Rettenmaier also used a more common thicker catch. If Rettenmaier were the maker of the IAB in this thread, I would expect to see the more common catches that Rettenmaier used on their marked products, show up on the so called "flatbacks". So that would appear strange to me.

I do agree with you that left opening catches are not used by many makers, and I think I am correct in saying that Rettenmaier and the "flatback" have used left and right opening catches.

Anyway, whoever the maker of your badge is, it is a fantastic example, that many would like in their collection.

best regards
Graeme

[Thomas Durante]

Can you please post the left facing catch set up on a marked Rettenmaier badge.

Hi Graeme, thanks for your thoughts, much appreciated. Ofcourse all of this is speculation and open to debate. Like you, I would love to find more connection points that point to Rettenmaier and will continue to look. But that is the fun of the hobby:

Here is the left-facing catch on a Rettenmaier-marked L/59 EK1.

Also, here is another good recent thread with another connection point of a similarly-shaped pin on a L/59 EK1 and a "flatback" Uboat badge:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ht=rettenmaier

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Here are a few more Rettenmaier EKs, with the same "Pforzheim-style" catch.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Two more, you can see the L/59 mark in the center of both crosses here.

None of these EKs needed a round catchplate like the IAB, becuase the back of the cross is high quality nickel silver. The IAB however is zinc, and therfore needed the additional baseplate.

Tom

[Graeme]

Hi Tom

Thanks for posting further pics. I have seen those style catches.

A real shame that the exact set up has not been posted yet. I take your point regarding the base metal but for me we need to see that same EXACT set up on a marked example.

The first catch you have just posted, imo is the more common catch for these EK1s, and I would have expected to have seen some of those on the flatbacks.

Also the type of catch on your IAB, and for the IAB you pointed out that they were predominently left facing, the two EK1 posted have right facing catches..

Do you know of any flatbacks that have L59 markings?

Will catch up tomorrow as I am off for some

cheers
Graeme

[Nick Carraway]

Graeme, if the was a flat back with an L59 we wouldn't be having this discussion!

[Graeme]

Hi Nick

I think we would if there was a single known marked example. There are examples of one offs, or a single packet showing up with a badge, but usually, it is deemed that we need a little more..

When several badges are found in packets or several marked examples show up we are happier to put a maker to a badge, as in the G&W packets found with unmarked IABs.

I guess I was fishing or hoping for further info that might help tie things in..

cheers
Graeme

[Thomas Durante]

Also the type of catch on your IAB, and for the IAB you pointed out that they were predominently left facing, the two EK1 posted have right facing catches..

But both EKs are marked for Rettenmaier, so you would have to agree that this proves that Rettenmaier used left-facing catches, correct?

I still have many of the same questions, and would not consider calling these "flatback" IABs "Rettenmaiers" just yet. All circumstantial evidence that hopefully is leading us somewhere.

Tom

[Graeme]

Hi Tom

I agree that Rettenmaier used left facing catches. In post #6, I said:-

"I do agree with you that left opening catches are not used by many makers, and I think I am correct in saying that Rettenmaier and the "flatback" have used left and right opening catches."

Last point from me tonight is that finding the exact catch setup would have been the biggest plus point, because it is tangible evidence, that is much more than just the circumstantial evidence mentioned. Imo, the circumstantial evidence can be interpreted in different ways and can be used for and against this particular connection.

Anyway, here is another IAB for you to see and enjoy

night
Graeme

[wehrpasswilly]

Think I've got the same left handed facing catch in one of my BWB's (which may or may not be mm)