Dutch SS Sports Badge Details

[Runic]

Gaston,
when is your book coming out?

Also - you said that that my badge is a well known fake in the Netherlands.
You obviously mean that the badge I have posted in this thread - with the "1" and and highly detailed sig-runes, is a very well known fake in the Netherlands.

If it is so well known in the Netherlands, surely someone must have a photo of a badge like mine that they can post?

I know the Netherlands is small, but someone must have a picture of a badge like mine if it is so well known. Please post!


John

[DTS]

I have almost the identical badge. Complete with SS 529 It is missing the "1" on the sword, but is otherwise the same. Up to and including the gold being more intense around the sword, in the same pattern. Mine has faded considerably, and almost looks silver, but is clearly gold. I bought it in 1978 in it's current faded condition, so I doubt it could have been newly made then.

Craig Gottlieb had one for sale a while ago, but instead of the SS 529 marking, it had an NSB stamp and number. He finally gave up on selling it, and it sold in one of his auctions for $305.

I've searched everything I can find on these, and still cannot determine if they were ever wartime made or awarded (much less whether mine is real), although your link clearly shows they were planned.

I cannot post pictures here, but if you send me your email, I'll be happy to send you some pics.

[Runic]

DTS,
Thanks for your reply! I haven't checked in in awhile, so sorry to keep you waiting.

I'll send you my email via a private message.

I am very interested to see if your badge had the same style and detail as mine.

John

[Runic]

Dutch SS Sports Badge

It's been a while since I've posted on this subject. I would like to submit, to a candid, open minded collecting community, certain facts that have come to light.

First of all. There has been a wave of collectors who have apologized, profusely, for offering this badge as original when all signs that they have been made aware of, have "proven" to them that this is a fantasy badge. Thus, because they can't prove the realtity of the badge, they will not sell it. IF they have sold it, they will give a refund,

However!!! The Dutch SS magazine, rare, and produced during the war years-details this badge, with pictures, as an original badge, planned for production. I have noticed that the very people who have posted this magazine on Wehrmacht Awards - have removed it - BECAUSE THE DUTCH DO NOT WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE SS - THEY ARE ASHAMED THAT THEY ARE HISTORICALLY COMMITTED TO THE SS - AND, THEY HAVE CARRIED OUT A CAMPAIGN THAT HAS DONE EVERYTING IN ITS POWER TO REMOVE ANY TRACE OF DUTCH ASSOCIATION WITH THE SS.
As effective as this has been - everyone I have spoken with has told me - "the Dutch SS sports badge is a fantasy and has no basis in fact," It turns out that
this is an absolute ridiculous absurdity - do a Google Search on Avegoor - the Dutch are intimately tied to the SS - and the Dutch SS Sports Badge EXISTED.
I have spoken with a MAJOR US dealer who told me that he sold the award document for the SS sports badge -he assured me that this award document existed, thus the badge existed - he sold the award document for the Dutch SS sports badge for over $2000.
And so - Badges as authentic as mine, with the maximum detail - and the numbering included - are obviously authentic- and incredibly rare.
Nuff Said. I don't give a crap if I ever sell my badge or not. I just want to point out a very obvious fact - The DUTCH do NOT want anything to do with the SS, or, for that matter, Nazi Germany, even though they were, to a degree, in collaboration with them. So - if the Dutch government tries to hide the fact that the Dutch SS Sports Badge is REAL, that's just too F'n Bad, because the collecting community aren't fools, and we have far too much evidence to make any statements they make into the lies that they are. My advice to the Dutch Government is, Accept what happened, move on, get over it!
And, If you can prove that the Dutch SS Sports Badge that I own, That EXACTLY corresponds to the Dutch SS Sports Badge printed in the Dutch SS Magazine that proclaimed the badges creation - is somehow a fake - then - more miraculous power to u, because you are wrong!!

Has anyone else noticed that the ONLY critics of the Dutch SS sports badge are DUTCH???? Welly, Welly, Well!!!!

[Christian J]

Dude, remove your tinfoil-hat and take some air.

[stewy]

Hi there, I know nothing about the Dutch SS. But the hardware says fake to me. I see no shear marks from die stamping, so does that mean it's a die injected process? First time I've seen this thread & to me it looks like a fantasy award. Sorry. You may have more luck in the correct sub forum rather than the Heer awards one. Stewy

[stewy]

Sorry but that's stronging it a bit. Why get so uptight? Your claims about this badge are very weak. I think you will have to provide some substantiated proof to continue the discussion. Kind regards, Stewy

[Christian J]

Come on. This ain't the X-files. There is no cover-up from the dutch authorities. These badges do not correspond with period hardware nor does their markings.

[Runic]

Yeah.
You guys are right .
You obviously have seen the Dutch SS newspaper that annouched the advent of these sports awards. One with, one without a sword.
Have you seen that newspaper? It does actually diagram the award with and without the sword. No big deal... I would say this - An SS newspaper - A Schutzstaffel Newspaper, Dutch style, announced the advent of an SS Sports Badge - one with, one without the Sword. 1940s. Historical Record.
So - That's Tinfoil Hat, X-FIles??? Just Because the Dutch SS newspaper announces that the SS Sports Badge Will Be Awarded To Its SS Members Who Meet Certain Criteria?
Ok, maybe I got a little uptight when folks didn't believe me - but - you want to call me crazy - when the Dutch SS themselves actually came up with this pattern???
I've seen it - plenty have seen this Dutch SS newspaper with this Sports Pattern - so you are saying I'm crazy? Are u nuts? X-Files?? Feel superior all you want - but you are WRONG.
OOPS. You are wrong. One thing you are right about, who really cares???

[Graeme]

Runic,

Please tone down your comments. I have edited the worst of them, and if you swear or are rude in any other threads I will act accordingly

best regards
Graeme

[stewy]

Thank you Graeme. Stewy

[Runic]

Crow

As much as I hate to eat crow, I have to admit that I still haven't been able to find evidence for the authenticity of my badge.

All we know, as historians, is that an article appeared in the Netherlands, entitled "Storm Blad Der Nederlandsche SS", which has a drawn diagram of the Dutch SS Sports badge - 2 pictures, with and without swords, and announcing that this was to be awarded, and with information ab0out the upcoming award.

Now, what we don't know for sure, is if this badge was ever actually awarded.
According to the expert, Angolia, Third Reich Badge fakes began to be made as soon as hostilities ended in 1945, and have continued to be made ever since - right up to our time.

Now the only thing that is obvious, is that the Dutch SS, according to "Storm Blad Der Nederlandsche SS", actually intended to make this award, with and without swords. If you doubt this, you can get a copy of this via Interlibrary Loan and see for yourself. If you need help with this let me know.

The thought that I have is - that some enterprising Dutch badge maker, aware of this magazine, started mass manufacturing this badge AFTER the war, for the collectors market, and it has ever since been made in various forms forever since then. Thus, we have this Incredible huge glut in the market of these fakes, and nobody believes that anything related to them could possibly be real.

My hope - wish - is that My badge is one of the actual prototypes made by a badge maker in the Netherlands, either a prototype of one of the first few made to be awarded - for we can expect that if an official magazine announced such a badge and gave drawings of the design, some badge maker would submit samples to win the contract to produce the award. This has happened in every country, for every open contract ever submitted for public competition!

The Dutch collectors I talked to told me that these fakes have been flooding the market forever. I know they are right. They are not hiding the truth - they are just telling the truth like it is.
So - I have to admit - my "conspiracy theory" that the Dutch were behind the suppression of the truth of this award - is utterly ridiculous - I admit it, I knew it at the time I wrote it - but you see, I was just trying to rile people up,to be controversial - because I think that somewhere there must be some truth to this badge. Why make a template, publish it publicly - and Not expect anyone to try to take advantage and be the first to produce it and make some cash???

But my main reason in posting this, is to apologize for my prior posts where I was way over the top. You guys who busted me on it, you were right. I was over the top.

But just you wait til I get incontrovertible proof of the reality of this badge!!!JK!!!

[RJS72]

No proof, but this is an image from the newspaper (a little big sorry for that)

[IMG]<a href="http://nl.tinypic.com?ref=2ymvmz9" target="_blank"><img src="http://i63.tinypic.com/2ymvmz9.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>[/IMG]

[Runic]

Thanks!

RJS72, This is exactly what we need to see for this discussion - Thank You So Much For Posting This!!!!

Here is the historical foundation for where these badge come from!
Like you say, RJS72, this isn't proof the badges were manufactured - but they sure prove one thing - they were intended for award by the Dutch SS! And more important - they also prove beyond doubt that this is NOT a Fantasy Badge!!!

Ok, where do we stand? No post-war mind concocted this badge, gentleman - the Dutch SS themselves came up with this one. Anyone who says different - look at this war-time magazine and diagram. Does this prove these badges actually went into production? Admittedly, no. Does it prove that it is not a fantasy badge?Without a doubt - this is a Real Badge, Intended for Production by the Dutch SS.

But this article in the Dutch SS newspaper sure does make you wonder whether these were actually produced, even in prototype mode! Did some enterprising badge maker, with connections to the Dutch SS, rush into production some prototypes to the win the award for the production of this badge? Or - were some SS soldiers actually officially awarded this badge?

There is a lot more I could say that I've learned from studying this - regarding the shape of the diagrams, and other things. But I'll leave it at this. This has been a very stimulating discussion, pro and con, which once again proves that the Wehrmacht Award Form is the most incredible place for dialogue regarding historical artifacts that all of us are interested in - you can't find a better forum than this.

Thanks to WAF, thanks to those who commented on this - and - Does Anyone Read DUTCH??? Please let me know what in the heck the article in the Dutch SS newspaper says!
Thanks guys,
Runic

[kray]

The article itself goes about the interpretation of freedom. In the article there is no link or spoken of the badge wich is discussed here.