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**Graeme** · 09-27-2011, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by Lexy View Post

cool threat, these things always exite me.

I have the same catch on my NS Juncker. I always have had the feeling that the early Junckers have conections to the egghead. My Juncker has the exact same setup as the Brehmer luft flak posted earlier.

Hi Alexander

I am glad you are excited

I think we need to see side shots of the catches before we can agree that they are the same type of catch.

Also I am sure that your "Juncker" IAB does not have the same set up at as the Brehmer luft flak posted earlier. The Brehmer has a block hinge style.

regards
Graeme

**Panzercracker** · 09-27-2011, 10:14 AM

Fabulous job Hans. I always had an affectation for the egghead. That GAB head looks a lot like the head on the egghead. Near perfect match IMO

, but never would have thought. To further up the connection with these set-ups is definately the icing on the cake.

**Graeme** · 09-27-2011, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by blutundehre View Post

Great job so far on observations and hope we can get to the bottom of the "egghead" mystery.
Dave

Dave, I agree it would be great to get to the bottom of the unknown "egghead" mystery, but I do not think that is going to be just yet.

Ken, similar eagle designs, and similar set up do not solve the mystery. Please do not post as if it has.

regards
Graeme

**blutundehre** · 09-27-2011, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Graeme Sandles View Post

Dave, I agree it would be great to get to the bottom of the unknown "egghead" mystery, but I do not think that is going to be just yet.

regards
Graeme

Hi Graeme,
Maybe not just yet, but it could be the start of the journey to solving it.
It gives us a possible direction to start searching where as we had no starting point before. This road may lead to a dead end, but at least it's a start right?
Dave

**Graeme** · 09-27-2011, 11:12 AM

Hi Dave

Yes good info and "possible" connection, but not enough for all of a sudden for the egghead to be called Brehmer. If further more substantial evidence turns up that would be great

cheers
Graeme

**Bruce Simcox** · 09-27-2011, 11:23 AM

Hi Graeme......

......Just to throw something out there. Take a look at this thread over in Kriegsmarine. The hinge of a number of the the post war attributed S&L S-Boat badges displayed there looks oddly familiar?

First 2 pages of the thread:http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=541818

**blutundehre** · 09-27-2011, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Graeme Sandles View Post

Hi Dave

Yes good info and "possible" connection, but not enough for all of a sudden for the egghead to be called Brehmer. If further more substantial evidence turns up that would be great

cheers
Graeme

Sure, not definite, but I don't think anyone is saying anything definite yet, but like a detective all leads need to be followed until they disprove/prove themselves or they dead end. Just exciting to have something to investigate is all I'm saying. It's going to be exciting to see how this lead works out, which is part of the enjoyment of this hobby for me anyway.
Dave

**Thomas Durante** · 09-27-2011, 11:53 AM

Nice work Hans, very well thought out connection to Brehmer and lots of good evidence to support the connection in my opinion. Its always good to have several connection points, not just one or two and I think you are onto something here.

The similar eagle design to Juncker is a very good connection point to Brehmer, something we can clearly see with other badges such as the Juncker & Brehmer LW flak badges, #PABs and Heer Flak badges, etc.

Tom

**Hans Kondor** · 09-27-2011, 12:17 PM

Thank you for your comments guys, keep them coming!

Bruce, the thread you showed where we can see post war S&L badges have a different hinge set-up, it wasn't used by Brehmer.

**Graeme** · 09-27-2011, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by Thomas Durante View Post

The similar eagle design to Juncker is a very good connection point to Brehmer, something we can clearly see with other badges such as the Juncker & Brehmer LW flak badges, #PABs and Heer Flak badges, etc.

Tom

Hi Tom

In this thread it was mentioned by Hans that the egghead IAB eagle design was similar to the GB GAB eagle design. We can see the similarity.

Am I right in understanding your comment above, that Juncker and Brehmer collaborated in badge making, and if this is what you are saying, can you explain it a little more. Thanks

Does this connection you mention of Juncker and Brehmer have any relevance to this thread ?

cheers
Graeme

**Thomas Durante** · 09-27-2011, 08:00 PM

Hi Graeme,

Sure there is a relevance, in that the "egghead" IAB always reminded me of the Juncker IABs. Their design is very similar IMO.

So when Hans put forward his Brehmer theory, it clicked in my head and made perfect sense that Brehmer could be a very good candidate for the egghead maker since Juncker and Brehmer shared very similar designs with other badges such as the LW Flak Badge, Heer Flak Badge, Numbered PABs, etc. The designs of all these badges are so close to eachother, that I do believe Juncker and Brehmer did have some type of collaboration in design of these awards. It may simply be that Brehmer used the same badge designer as Juncker, or that Brehmer purchased some of Juncker's awards and copied the designs which they used to make their own badges from. Whatever the reason doesn't matter much to me, what is important is that their designs are similar and the same can be said with the Juncker IABs and the egghead IABs in my opinion.

Tom

**Andreas Klein** · 09-28-2011, 12:02 AM

Having similiar designs on a badge doesn't mean that the makers collaborated with each other. Thinking this way ignores the most important point of badge making:

The Präsidialkanzlei and the LDO.

And their goal was to make awards as similiar as they could do. So badge makers had a official guideline how an IAB has to look. That they all had a grim looking eagle instead of a smiling one is not the result of a collarboration - it's based on the guideline.

So a "similiar" looking eagle is no evidence that two makers worked together it can be an evidence that certain makers used the same guideline or the same external die cutter.

We also forget the question of unmarked badges in general. It can't be a coincidence that they are unmarked even if we take into account that the maker was marking other badges.

Btw we are always speaking about Juncker bages here:

Can someone show a Juncker maker marked GAB/IAB or a packet for these awards which is the only real evidence that Juncker made them?

Linking unmarked badges together with another unmarked badge where we have to believe that it was made by a certain firm isn't that reputable. No one of us would identify his "Toyota" as unknown "Mercedes Benz" design because the Toyota has 4 wheels and someone has heard that a Mercedes Benz always has 4 wheels so that there "must be" a collaboration between them.

**Hans Kondor** · 09-28-2011, 03:30 AM

Hello Andreas,

the similarity to Juncker design was just a sidenote in my post, the primal track in my post was the set-up and the finish similarity to a marked known maker's example, the Brehmer GAB.

**Andreas Klein** · 09-28-2011, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by Hans Kondor View Post

..., the primal track in my post was the set-up and the finish similarity to a marked known maker's example, the Brehmer GAB.

Hi Hans,

if Brehmer had a setup which is like a fingerprint because it wasn't used by any other maker or it could be only found on Brehmer marked badges than we could go this way but Brehmer hasn't something unique in this way.

Take Zimmermann/Pforzheim .... they used a very unique setup on the KVK, German Cross and Wound Badge. A Setup which can't be found on any other maker marked badge from another firm. With such a setup there is the chance to link unmarked badges.

The same to finish ... it's justed a frosting as it was "normal" during this time.

**Thomas Durante** · 09-28-2011, 05:28 AM

Originally posted by Andreas Klein View Post

So a "similiar" looking eagle is no evidence that two makers worked together it can be an evidence that certain makers used the same guideline or the same external die cutter.

Hi Andreas,

I respectfully disagree with this statement. In a perfect world, you might be right and all the makers followed the LDO and Prasi guidelines and therefore all the badges we collect would look alike. However, that is clearly not the case. Take the LW flak badges for example. We have about 10 different makers, and we can tell each maker apart simply by looking at the eagle design. Each maker had their own little design, but Juncker and Brehmer stand out because their designs are so similar (more similar to eachother than any other Flak badge maker).

GABs, PABs, & IABs are the same way. You have to admit that not all the designs of these badges are the same. Some are closer in design to other makers, but for the most part, most every IAB PAB or GAB can be identified simply by looking at the obverse design. This could not happen if you were right and each maker followed the guidelines precisely and everyone copied eachother's design.

I am not saying that the egghead is definitely Brehmer, but Hans makes some very good points. And I think the similarity in designs to the Juncker badges is a SIGNIFICANT piece of evidence that cannot be ignored.

Tom

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