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New "Daisy" PAB Fake Alert!

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    New "Daisy" PAB Fake Alert!

    Dear All,

    When I posted this bronze daisy PAB before, I mentioned that I had serious reservations about it, and feared that it was a clever new fake.
    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=44306

    I am convinced that it is a new fake of the daisy PAB. Philippe has it in hand now, and he agrees. This thing looks very good in pictures, but once you handle it the differences jump out at you. As I mentioned before, the biggest obvious differences are in the dimensions. This one measures 59.1mm x 40.5mm and weighs 21.6g. The dimensions of other zinc semi-hollow daisy PABs that I have measured are:
    60.0mm x 41.8mm 29.8g
    60.7mm x 41.4mm 30.7g
    60.1mm x 41.5mm 30.3g

    Philippe made a great image with this badge in the center, flanked by two good daisy PABs. The size difference is readily visible. Philippe, can you post the "triplet" front and rear views?

    While the obverse includes some of the recognizable details of a daisy PAB (such as the cross hatching by the eagle's legs), there is a general blurring of details in some areas. Note the oak leaf at the 4 o'clock position in the wreath. Note also the pitted holes just under the left track; this badge was probably cast. One of the distinguishing features is the "hole" where the wreath meets the left side of the tank. Normally I would accept this as a finisher perhaps being over-zealous during the hand finishing process, but a couple of other identical examples have also been noted.

    The reverse also has some details of good daisy PABs, but the contours are generally "softer" than on a daisy PAB. When you handle it, you can also tell that the base material isn't zinc, but some shiny white metal.

    The pin is also bent incorrectly to form the foot at the hinge end. See the following posts.

    To my mind, this is indeed a clever new fake. Please be on the lookout for examples like this. I don't know the source; I found this one at a militaria show in Orlando, FL in February. I fear some others like it have been posted on this Forum.

    Regards,
    Greg
    Attached Files
    sigpicFacebook "Tigers in the Ardennes" book page
    www.facebook.com/TigersintheArdennes

    #2
    The back.
    Attached Files
    sigpicFacebook "Tigers in the Ardennes" book page
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      #3
      Note on these images the evident casting holes under the left track, the incorrectly formed hinge end of the pin, the "hole" where the wreath meets the left side of the tank, and the blurring of details around the 4 o'clock area on the wreath and roadwheels. (Image by Philippe)

      Regards,
      Greg
      Attached Files
      Last edited by Greg; 03-15-2004, 10:34 AM.
      sigpicFacebook "Tigers in the Ardennes" book page
      www.facebook.com/TigersintheArdennes

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        #4
        The hinge end of the pin. (Image by Philippe)
        Attached Files
        Last edited by Greg; 03-15-2004, 10:34 AM.
        sigpicFacebook "Tigers in the Ardennes" book page
        www.facebook.com/TigersintheArdennes

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          #5
          The "hole" at the wreath. (Image by Philippe)
          Attached Files
          Last edited by Greg; 03-15-2004, 10:34 AM.
          sigpicFacebook "Tigers in the Ardennes" book page
          www.facebook.com/TigersintheArdennes

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            #6
            Blurred details of oak leaf and roadwheels.

            Regards,
            Greg
            Attached Files
            sigpicFacebook "Tigers in the Ardennes" book page
            www.facebook.com/TigersintheArdennes

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              #7
              Hi Guys ,


              First of all I want to thank Greg for his vigilance in bringing this PAB to our attention. Based upon the picture he posted in the above mentioned thread I wasn't capable of recognizing it as a fake.

              The reason I didn't recognize it for what it was are first of all the fact that I didn't know daisy fakes existed untill I handled this badge and secondly because the badge was posted as a standalone item without reference. Ok the detailing was a little blurry but nothing that really concerned me.

              After I received the badge and could compare it to known originals it became immediately clear that this was a very good cast copy. The air bubbles under the left track (cfr post 3) gave it away as such. However the rest of this badge is very well made which IMO makes it extremely difficult to recognize from a picture.

              This morning I looked at pictures of 26 original daisy badges in an effort to find a way to be able to recognize it. At this point there is one feature on this badge that I didn't find on any of the originals. Just focus on the way the opening between the wreath and the tank turret is shaped. This is clearly visible in Greg's 5th post and also easy to see from the reverse. Just compare this to the more angled shape on the original. Even from a blurry picture this should give the fake away.

              Other features, beside the dimensions, that will help you to recognize it ones you hold it are the fact that it's not made out of zinc but out of some very shiny silver alloy and besides that when you rub the wreath's reverse it feels rather sharp. In general the reverse scoop out is much less pronounced than on the original.

              I'll post the compare with the fake in the middle so you can clearly see the differences in dimensions.

              KR
              Philippe
              Attached Files
              Last edited by Philippe DB; 03-15-2004, 11:10 AM.

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                #8
                Reverse
                Attached Files

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                  #9
                  A very good observation, Greg & Philippe. This will save a lot of guys!

                  Fight the good fight!
                  Cheers, Frank

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Well done guys. A very helpful thread and one that will help a lot of people save some hard earned cash.

                    Those fakers sure went to a lot of trouble in getting this one nearly right.

                    Skip
                    LOOKING FOR ALL ITEMS CONNECTED TO HERBERT SCHOB.

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                      #11
                      Thanks alot.

                      Peter Wiking

                      Comment


                        #12
                        good work guys..any more of these surface?
                        this looks like something we should see more of....

                        mike
                        http://tankbadges.homestead.com

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                          #13
                          I agree with Mike we probably will start seeing more of these I had reported seeing two that I had suspected to be bad at a local show that were dead on identical in that they both had the same wear patterns and finish applied...nice work guys

                          Ian
                          Last edited by I Marotto; 03-15-2004, 11:53 AM.

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                            #14
                            Congrats on a job well done!
                            Zinc stinks!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by I Marotto
                              I agree with Mike we probably will start seeing more of these I had reported seeing two that I had suspected to be bad at a local show that were dead on identical in that they both had the same wear patterns and finish applied...nice work guys

                              Ian
                              Hi Ian,
                              Did you see two more "daisies" like this one?
                              Thanks,
                              Greg
                              sigpicFacebook "Tigers in the Ardennes" book page
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