Interested in tackling the GB numbered PAB's?

[robert60446]

Lets not jump in to any conclusions by looking at a catch. I can easely post 5 more catches that are different on GB numbered PAB's that live a happy life as originals in more then a few collections.

Dear Phil, it is not the catch only, are those 5 GB PAB's without the pin marks as well? Could you post there reverse pictures?
Combine different catches, no pin marks and differences on details and it is like defending a killer rapist who claims he is innocent...

[Philippe DB]

Dear Phil, it is not the catch only, are those 5 GB PAB's without the pin marks as well? Could you post there reverse pictures?
Combine different catches, no pin marks and differences on details and it is like defending a killer rapist who claims he is innocent...

Dear Robert,

That might well be the case but at this moment I'm not willing to jump I to conclusions yet.

If we do that only one type will survive and 95% of GB numbered PAB's in collections will be declared fakes overnight. At the end this might well be the case but its much to early to reach any conclusion. It wouldn't be the first time that fakes show better detail then originals. For the sake of argument just imagine type I being such a badge

KR
Philippe

[Don D.]

Here you go Robert.

[Van]

Hello, If I may put forth an observation...
The one constant here that no one has really touched on it the fact that all these badges are "hand crafted" after the initial strking of the 2 parts... remember we are dealing with the "human factor".. G.B. might have been one person, the person who owned the store, BUT... he is not the only person to have crimped the catch or bent the pin or flared the rivits. He probably had a few ppl working for him either hired help or family. Someone gets sick and is out for a day or two, the other person working there would very possibly use a different tool, file a different way, not pay as much attention to detail as another...
This is an awesome thread, you guys are hitting on a lot things, very very informative.. I hope my reply is not out of line, just something to think on...
Van.

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys,

I'm also making a spreadsheet with all the measurements of the badge we encounter. In a later stage this might become relevant.

What I would need are:

Height
Width of the wreath
Width + wreath + Panzer, please use the second track chain on the right to position the callipers.

Bob would you be so kind to double check the width (wreath only) on your silver type I. Robert posted 44,65mm is this correct?

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

Hello, If I may put forth an observation...
The one constant here that no one has really touched on it the fact that all these badges are "hand crafted" after the initial strking of the 2 parts... remember we are dealing with the "human factor".. G.B. might have been one person, the person who owned the store, BUT... he is not the only person to have crimped the catch or bent the pin or flared the rivits. He probably had a few ppl working for him either hired help or family. Someone gets sick and is out for a day or two, the other person working there would very possibly use a different tool, file a different way, not pay as much attention to detail as another...
This is an awesome thread, you guys are hitting on a lot things, very very informative.. I hope my reply is not out of line, just something to think on...
Van.

Hi Van,

All very true but we did not yet get to comparing file or sheer marks.

Unless we agree that the cross hatching on every single badge, apart from type one, was done by hand, this wouldn't explain the differences we see.

So for now we absolutely have to concentrate on these patterns and see where this leads us.

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys,

Something just dawend on me:

A sure feature that would enable us to link type I to any other original type would be the fact that we can link the pin with the very distinctive plyer marks to a badge that either features worn out or crosshatched cups.

For those of you who own Tuckers book "German combat badges of the III reich" please take a look at the bronze GB 50 on page 92/93

This badge clearly features this specific pin and as such is the frist Bronze grade I have seen. Based upon what I can see the accorn cup's on quite a few accorn look very worn. Problem is I just can't be sure based upon the pics in the book. The resolution isn't high enough.

KR
Philippe

PS: as far as I'm concerned that 50 shows an ageing pattern very close to Bob's bronze badge that we know features a crosshatching pattern. Bob could you take a look or post a pic of the pin bend on your bronze 50?

[robert60446]

.
For those of you who own Tuckers book "German combat badges of the III reich" please take a look at the bronze GB 50 on page 92/93

Phil,
Could you please post scan from this book here?

[Philippe DB]

Phil,
Could you please post scan from this book here?

Am I allowed to?

KR
Philippe

[robert60446]

Am I allowed to?

KR
Philippe

Then at least please email me...

[Jeff V]

Am I allowed to?

KR
Philippe

Why not, if I had a scanner it would already be up.
jeff

[Philippe DB]

Oh well in the name of research, here you go.

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

T reverse

[robert60446]

Thanks Phil!...
Yep, classic pin!

[Bob Hritz]

Upper pin marks on my bronze. Sorry, but the camera wants to focus on the larger badge than pin, but the tool marks from bending the pin are visible.

Bob Hritz