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    #106
    Originally posted by Philippe DB
    Lets not jump in to any conclusions by looking at a catch. I can easely post 5 more catches that are different on GB numbered PAB's that live a happy life as originals in more then a few collections.
    Dear Phil, it is not the catch only, are those 5 GB PAB's without the pin marks as well? Could you post there reverse pictures?
    Combine different catches, no pin marks and differences on details and it is like defending a killer rapist who claims he is innocent...

    Comment

      #107
      Originally posted by robert60446
      Dear Phil, it is not the catch only, are those 5 GB PAB's without the pin marks as well? Could you post there reverse pictures?
      Combine different catches, no pin marks and differences on details and it is like defending a killer rapist who claims he is innocent...
      Dear Robert,

      That might well be the case but at this moment I'm not willing to jump I to conclusions yet.

      If we do that only one type will survive and 95% of GB numbered PAB's in collections will be declared fakes overnight. At the end this might well be the case but its much to early to reach any conclusion. It wouldn't be the first time that fakes show better detail then originals. For the sake of argument just imagine type I being such a badge

      KR
      Philippe

      Comment

        #108
        Here you go Robert.
        Attached Files
        pseudo-expert

        Comment

          #109
          Hello, If I may put forth an observation...
          The one constant here that no one has really touched on it the fact that all these badges are "hand crafted" after the initial strking of the 2 parts... remember we are dealing with the "human factor".. G.B. might have been one person, the person who owned the store, BUT... he is not the only person to have crimped the catch or bent the pin or flared the rivits. He probably had a few ppl working for him either hired help or family. Someone gets sick and is out for a day or two, the other person working there would very possibly use a different tool, file a different way, not pay as much attention to detail as another...
          This is an awesome thread, you guys are hitting on a lot things, very very informative.. I hope my reply is not out of line, just something to think on...
          Van.

          Comment

            #110
            Hi Guys,

            I'm also making a spreadsheet with all the measurements of the badge we encounter. In a later stage this might become relevant.

            What I would need are:

            Height
            Width of the wreath
            Width + wreath + Panzer, please use the second track chain on the right to position the callipers.

            Bob would you be so kind to double check the width (wreath only) on your silver type I. Robert posted 44,65mm is this correct?

            KR
            Philippe

            Comment

              #111
              Originally posted by Van
              Hello, If I may put forth an observation...
              The one constant here that no one has really touched on it the fact that all these badges are "hand crafted" after the initial strking of the 2 parts... remember we are dealing with the "human factor".. G.B. might have been one person, the person who owned the store, BUT... he is not the only person to have crimped the catch or bent the pin or flared the rivits. He probably had a few ppl working for him either hired help or family. Someone gets sick and is out for a day or two, the other person working there would very possibly use a different tool, file a different way, not pay as much attention to detail as another...
              This is an awesome thread, you guys are hitting on a lot things, very very informative.. I hope my reply is not out of line, just something to think on...
              Van.
              Hi Van,

              All very true but we did not yet get to comparing file or sheer marks.

              Unless we agree that the cross hatching on every single badge, apart from type one, was done by hand, this wouldn't explain the differences we see.

              So for now we absolutely have to concentrate on these patterns and see where this leads us.

              KR
              Philippe

              Comment

                #112
                Hi Guys,

                Something just dawend on me:

                A sure feature that would enable us to link type I to any other original type would be the fact that we can link the pin with the very distinctive plyer marks to a badge that either features worn out or crosshatched cups.

                For those of you who own Tuckers book "German combat badges of the III reich" please take a look at the bronze GB 50 on page 92/93

                This badge clearly features this specific pin and as such is the frist Bronze grade I have seen. Based upon what I can see the accorn cup's on quite a few accorn look very worn. Problem is I just can't be sure based upon the pics in the book. The resolution isn't high enough.

                KR
                Philippe

                PS: as far as I'm concerned that 50 shows an ageing pattern very close to Bob's bronze badge that we know features a crosshatching pattern. Bob could you take a look or post a pic of the pin bend on your bronze 50?
                Last edited by Philippe DB; 07-02-2006, 09:33 AM.

                Comment

                  #113
                  Originally posted by Philippe DB
                  .
                  For those of you who own Tuckers book "German combat badges of the III reich" please take a look at the bronze GB 50 on page 92/93
                  Phil,
                  Could you please post scan from this book here?

                  Comment

                    #114
                    Originally posted by robert60446
                    Phil,
                    Could you please post scan from this book here?
                    Am I allowed to?

                    KR
                    Philippe

                    Comment

                      #115
                      Originally posted by Philippe DB
                      Am I allowed to?

                      KR
                      Philippe
                      Then at least please email me...

                      Comment

                        #116
                        Originally posted by Philippe DB
                        Am I allowed to?

                        KR
                        Philippe
                        Why not, if I had a scanner it would already be up.
                        jeff
                        Looking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.

                        Comment

                          #117
                          Oh well in the name of research, here you go.

                          KR
                          Philippe
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                            #118
                            T reverse
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                              #119
                              Thanks Phil!...
                              Yep, classic pin!

                              Comment

                                #120
                                Upper pin marks on my bronze. Sorry, but the camera wants to focus on the larger badge than pin, but the tool marks from bending the pin are visible.

                                Bob Hritz
                                Attached Files
                                In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

                                Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.

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