Legion Condor Tank badge

[AZartman]

Bob-

Do you happen to own more then one of these badges?

[Frank Heukemes]

Hi Alex,

We have more owners of LCPBs here, but Brian's badge is the only badge so far which does compare in all aspects to your badge. It does not make much sense to compare it to other style (and probably maker) LCPBs. There is no question that your badge is close to other "type II" badges as far as the obverse design goes. In this case, the revesre is far more important. Hinge, pin, catch and especially the silver mark are unique to your and Brian's badge.

[Brian S]

Frank's right. And Alex, the comment about the silver content is very important too. Silver is cheap and malleable. As you and I hold these in hand I can guess it is not 925 because pure silver as such would be much more pliable than my badge. It will be very interesting to see what they come up with in content. In that respect it's especially great that you came up with a professional.

Thanks again Frank.

[AZartman]

Hi Alex,

We have more owners of LCPBs here, but Brian's badge is the only badge so far which does compare in all aspects to your badge. It does not make much sense to compare it to other style (and probably maker) LCPBs. There is no question that your badge is close to other badges as far as the obverse design goes. In this case, the revesre is far more important. Hinge, pin, catch and especially the silver mark are unique to your and Brian's badge.

---

I agree Frank. I did so because Bob and MARK asked. The reverses are different. As you say it could simply mean Bob's is an "other style (and probably maker) LCPB".

What I was curious about is why details in the obverse design on the LCPB that Bob posted in the early thread look different from the details in the obverse design of the badge he posted in this thread? It could be angle, lighting? It is also possible Bob owns two, and simply posted a different photo by accident? I don't know, but the barrel on the tanks look different to me. The badge on the right seems to exhibit more depth and dimension.

[Frank Heukemes]

You can see by checking little patina speckles (left below nose) on the badge that these two pictures are of one and the same badge.

[AZartman]

Another variation? Item on the right shows thicker gauge pin. Different backing plate for the hinge (small cut out). This may be hidden by pin on the left side. Not sure. Pin on the right is blunt. Pin on the left is pointed. Detail in the bow area looks different. Stock looks thinner on left, thick on the right. I hope this is not interpreted as pitting one vs. the other. But I am seeing three different reverse styles.

[Frank Heukemes]

Absolutely correct. Prosper Keating's badge is the most widely accepted and most common style (often referred to as "type II"). Bob`s Badge is a different maker.

[AZartman]

this may make it easier.

[AZartman]

Absolutely correct. Prosper Keating's badge is the most widely accepted and most common style (often referred to as "type II"). Bob`s Badge is a different maker.

Got it. I missed the "patina speckles". What is interesting is how Bob's and mine share certain characteristics i.e. around the eyes and the bow. And, at the same time mine shares characteristics with the Prosper Keating Type II i.e. if one looks at the bones. I am speaking only about the reverses in this case. Cheers.

Alex

[robert60446]

Guys,
This badge was not produced in mass numbers. Only little more then 400 badges were awarded to the Legion Condor soldiers. Even if all of those soldiers decided to buy these badges in the multiple quantities (lets say 3 per soldier for different uniforms), then still the total number would be around 1500 badges needed. We have two different design variants widely accepted (silver 1st version and non silver (but silvered) 2nd version). Both variants came out from the different dies. At some point you have to ask where is the logic to create yet another die when there is a good chance that profit from sales will not even cover the die design and manufacturing cost…

[Don D.]

Good point Robert except you also have to remember that as an early award it has the longest production run of any combat badge. Several "personalities" also had them, ie. Sepp Dietrich for one. I don't write these off just because more than 2 makers may or may not exist. There are quite a few examples of Imperial awards that were awarded in such few numbers (100+) and yet we find several variants because they were made in small batches over a long time. And just what did it cost for a jeweller to make a die?
Don

[robert60446]

And just what did it cost for a jeweller to make a die?
Don

Don,
cost of the die is always very expansive. Just go to the jeweler today and ask him to make a personalized ring for your wife, let's say from the catalog picture. For the ring only, where the level of complication compared to the badge is almost zero, he will charge you around $500 for the die design and this will be a very weak die, good for the limited run only not for mass production. The industrial duty die cost is now around $25000 and up (it depends how complicated it is). I can only imagine that the industrial duty dies back in 30's were very expansive as well...

[Don D.]

Robert, I think costs were just the opposite back then. Labor was cheap, materials were cheap. Additionally, if you wanted to be fully licensed to make awards would you not have made even the most obscure ones, at least early on? When this badge was created/authorized it was the only game in town. Now, any saavy businessman will tell you that if you are hoping for future contracts etc... this might be a project you would jump on. Since most of the big names had die makers on thier payrolls why not put them to work on this if they're not doing anything else?
You cannot always correlate yesterday with today nor can you do it across cultures. The bottomline is "Does the piece stand on its own merit by materials, construction etc...?" All this other speculation is just that unless someone dredges up period information otherwise.
Don

[robert60446]

Robert, I think costs were just the opposite back then. Labor was cheap, materials were cheap. Additionally, if you wanted to be fully licensed to make awards would you not have made even the most obscure ones, at least early on? When this badge was created/authorized it was the only game in town. Now, any saavy businessman will tell you that if you are hoping for future contracts etc... this might be a project you would jump on. Since most of the big names had die makers on thier payrolls why not put them to work on this if they're not doing anything else?
You cannot always correlate yesterday with today nor can you do it across cultures. The bottomline is "Does the piece stand on its own merit by materials, construction etc...?" All this other speculation is just that unless someone dredges up period information otherwise.
Don

Don,
I guess the bottom line is, if someone is ready to spend let’s say $4000 for some very questionable variant of the Legion Condor Tank Badge (IMO), then that’s ok with me…

[Don D.]

In the end we all have to be comfortable with our collections.
Don