Legion Condor Tank badge

[Don D.]

Interesting discussion. There is precidence for an "800" mark on a pin, perhaps even pointing to a maker connection. Look at this photo from Detlev's book:

[Don D.]

These pre war badges are in a funny area as far as production, marking etc goes. No longer Imperial, pre LDO. Lots of room for tolerance in markings. The key will be in the content. If it turns out to be 800 silver than it probably is real.

[Brian S]

Thanks Dan, I appreciate a positive approach. It's easy to poke holes, much more difficult to look for a set of 'problems'.

I'll also post this. I appreciate the design inside the eyes as not a contentious reason for being a fake but much MORE likely a reason for it being real.

The workmanship around the eyes gives the skull depth inside the eyes. Notice how it flares slightly into the skull.

Again, thank you Don. Brilliant input.

[Pieter Verbruggen]

Thanks Dan, I appreciate a positive approach. It's easy to poke holes, much more difficult to look for a set of 'problems'.

I'll also post this. I appreciate the design inside the eyes as not a contentious reason for being a fake but much MORE likely a reason for it being real.

The workmanship around the eyes gives the skull depth inside the eyes. Notice how it flares slightly into the skull.

Again, thank you Don. Brilliant input.

...and all other imputs are stupid no?...I think Frank made some "brilliant" remarks on this Condor badge..just my two cents...
Pieter.

[Pieter Verbruggen]

...and Brian ,your badge doesn't look the same as the one of the Schickle cataloge, thought it would be easy for you to draw THAT conclusion.
Close but no ...banana...
Pieter.

[AZartman]

"Ok, I am quite the diplomate most of the time. Let me be nasty too: If the very same badge like my rare LC PAB type would have been found with the STASH of high end fakes presented by Alex on this forum, I would be very worried."

"Would Alex's badge be the only original out of say 50 high end fakes he was presented with, all from the same source?"
--------

I apparently missed this heated exchange this afternoon but the above comments do strike me as unfairly reflecting on my reputation. If you want to get nasty, then leave my name out of it.

I have done nothing but post an item for discussion and haven't questioned anybody. Does this mean if I present a badge now it will no longer be examined on it own merits - but on the source, namely me? Doesn't seem fair as I have never tried to pass something off as real that has been declared as a fake. STASH? Why was that called out in all caps?

I respect your opinion Frank. I like your books, and your scholarly approach, and I have reached out to you. I've even supplied you with fake material for your upcoming publications at your request. I am learning this is a hobby that is being ruined by fakes.

Is it possible that the "source" in question was taken advantage of many times in his lifetime, but got lucky once or twice in his lifetime? Of course it is.

Is it possible that the "source" knowingly was dealing in high quality fakes? Of course it is. I will never know the answer as I don't know the "source" and dead men don't speak.

In addition, several badges I have posted recently have been fine, namely the Teno 1922, or the WWI silver wound badge, SA sports badge, bronze war merit cross, and a political tinnie? All of which came from the same source as well. Maybe not rare and valuable but real nevertheless.

Had I purchased this Legion Condor Tank Badge, or any of these badges for that matter, maybe I would feel more inclined to defend them, but that is not the case. I do not like what I feel is being implied by your statements, though I understand what you were trying to say. I would ask you please don't cast shadows on my name.

I don't know if the piece is 800 silver. But I can take it to a jeweler and find out. I'd be happy to.

http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nena...tal-alloys.htm

I hope you and others who have read my posts over the past month would agree that I didn't come here to defend any badges. I asked if they were real FIRST, and what they were SECOND. I don't collect badges. I do not own an extensive library of resource books and I do not have years of experience handling these items. That is why I come here and why I respect this forum. I can NOW tell a Minesweeper and an E-boat from and Auxillary cruiser. Something I could not do a month ago.

HOWEVER...

If I have misinterpreted your remarks during your heated exchange with another forum member then please clear that up for me.

I also want to thank Brian and Don for their efforts to try and shed some light on this badge in general and hopefully ALL interested forum members will continue to contribute to this discussion and focus on the badge in question and not on the character of those involved.

Regards,

Alex

[Brian S]

Wow Pieter. Now we have an expert opinion. Thank you so much.

[Brian S]

Pieter loves to share.

I'm SURE he'll start a thread on HIS Otto Schickle LCTB and then we'll be informed.

[Brian S]

If ANYONE, Detlev, anyone, Herr Weitze, can show us a PROPER Otto Schickle, let's see it.

[AlikN]

What type of the CLTB is accepted as 100% original ?
...and I wonder how many people own one of those?

[Frank Heukemes]

@Alex: It was not my intention to make YOU look bad, if it was percieved like that by you, I apologize. I merely wanted to point out that it is possible, but highly unlikely that this should be the only HIGH END badge out of the many, many brilliantly made fakes from the collection you acquired. The CONTEXT in which your badge appeared is very bad, this does not have anything to do with your name.

I've even supplied you with fake material for your upcoming publications at your request.

Marc visited you, made photographs, put them on a CD and delivered the CD to me in Germany when we met. Thank you for giving him permission to take the photographs. Just wanted to put that straight. It is not that I ask something of people and then screw them.

@Brian:

Your badge IS 100%. No question.

Will you stop that, please? You have no foundation for absolute remarks like these. It is fine to say it matches the Schickle illustration and it is fine for Pieter to be not of that opinion. People can compare themselves if they feel inclined to do so and draw their own result. Unless it is "Merry Xmas" next time, please stop the nasty PMs to me. I am a patient guy but it all ends somewhere.

@Alik: there are at least two to three types accepted as 100% original but it is not the subject of this discussion. You will find pictures of them in the many discussions we had about these badges, pics were presented by Yuri D., Prosper Keating, Bill Stump, Mark Miller, Don Doering, Jacques and Bob Hritz in the past.

[Frank Heukemes]

Alex & Brian, is the pin magnetic?

[Sal Williams]

Wow guys! I have never seen Frank try to rip apart sombodys badges or thier name,..ANYWHERE,...EVER! I am absolutly positive you are both misunderstanding his comments and motives! It is absolutly possible these are real lctb's. But the fact that they came with a lot of other high end fakes( not a comment on Alexs reputation at all) makes Franks re examination of them valid. He said nothing out of line and it is a pleasant knowlege that Frank is out there using his skills and knowlege in our behalf. Please guys no need to worry about Frank being out to get you, he does not operate that way.

Best, Sal

[AZartman]

update

Good morning,

@Alex: It was not my intention to make YOU look bad, if it was percieved like that by you, I apologize.

Thanks Frank. I value this forum. Things got heated yesterday and I felt caught in a bit of crossfire.

I merely wanted to point out that it is possible, but highly unlikely that this should be the only HIGH END badge out of the many, many brilliantly made fakes from the collection you acquired.

There may be be one or two more oldies but goodies. We shall see in time.

The CONTEXT in which your badge appeared is very bad, this does not have anything to do with your name.

Your comment about context is valid. I have more items I will post over time, and hope forum members will keep an open mind about them and evaluate the badge. Context at this point will always be an issue in THIS particular batch. I hope people do not allow a badges provenance to override its inherent merits or characterisics. When I stumble on another set of medals I will be sure to point out it is not from the same collection. But let's remember that there was some good mixed with bad, and try to leave $$ out of it.

Marc visited you, made photographs, put them on a CD and delivered the CD to me in Germany when we met. Thank you for giving him permission to take the photographs. Just wanted to put that straight. It is not that I ask something of people and then screw them.

Absolutely right. Glad they made it to you. Marc's a great guy.

@Brian: Will you stop that, please? You have no foundation for absolute remarks like these. It is fine to say it matches the Schickle illustration and it is fine for Pieter to be not of that opinion. People can compare themselves if they feel inclined to do so and draw their own result. Unless it is "Merry Xmas" next time, please stop the nasty PMs to me. I am a patient guy but it all ends somewhere.

@Alik: there are at least two to three types accepted as 100% original but it is not the subject of this discussion. You will find pictures of them in the many discussions we had about these badges, pics were presented by Yuri D., Prosper Keating, Bill Stump, Mark Miller, Don Doering, Jacques and Bob Hritz in the past.

[AZartman]

Short answer on my end is no, and I suspect Brian's as well.

I have been playing with various strength magnets since yesterday. It actually occurred to me as well that it would be a good idea to check. I cannot get any magnetic attraction.

In fact, I have been trying to Google the physical properties of Silver to see if it is naturally non-magnetic.

I have not found a clear answer on this, but I think it is not magnetic. But I did learn Silver is a great electrical conductor. I plan on researching further and I will go to a jeweler and see what i can do.

Alex & Brian, is the pin magnetic?