Ostfolk awards

[James Clark]

Just curious why would the German post- Government in 1957 re-issued Eastern Volunteer awards. The only persons who would have qualified to wear them were a small cadre of German personnel assigned exclusively to these eastern volunteer units. Most Eastern volunteers who managed to survive the war did not want to be associated to the Third Reich let alone wear these medals. I can see post-war German awards issued to German veterans but Eastern People’s award is something else in my opinion but I guess anything is possible.

Rene Chavez
Http://axis101.bizland.com
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These were German awards instituted by Hitler and awarded in his name. You are right that there were severe limitations on awards to German personnel but nevertheless these are German awards that some German veterans would have been entitled to wear. They might therefore reasonably have been included under the 1957 law.

[NickG]

Hello Nick,
Just to clarify, I have indicated the points I am referring to with yellow arrows.
Best regards,
Tom

Thanks for pointing out the differences Tom. You can use post 83 to get accurate measurments, as that image is an actual scan which was not changed in size! Regarding the weight...sorry I don't have acces to a scale that is that accurate...

I also find it hard to believe that a "post57" version would exist as no modifications are necessary...This is a very neutral (politically correct) design post war and very few (German cadre) would have been elgible to wear it post ww2... The short versus long supension part might just be a manufacturer's variation.. .just like the rope issue... I don't know!

Note that I am not a medal collector/specialist...This is my first contribution in this section! I just have these to pin on uniforms, that's my reason for owning these, so I am not too picky when it comes to the various types. As long as it looks pretty on a tunic I'm happy!
Nick
PS: re your question: the suspension eyelet on the ropeless medal is an integral part of the medal (just like the others! but a little shorter)...something I had not paid attention to before, like the rope issue!)

[Jono]

I think if we are prepared to accept the ropeless variant as period, with such a noticeable difference in design for no apparent reason, we must at least consider that the relatively minor variation of the ring extensions could be period too. I think we must consider it

[Don D.]

It would be helpful if we could nail down the number of manufacturers. How many variants can we expect one manufacturer to produce?

[Darrell]

It would be helpful if we could nail down the number of manufacturers. How many variants can we expect one manufacturer to produce?

I agree Don,

Obviously "100" is a maker. That can be seen above in the numerous examples. Dave Danner showed an interesting one in a thread of the past. Here are the pics. It appears to be the type of "100" but it had a "50" as the mark.

[Darrell]

I've scoured the old threads, but I can distinctly remember a member that had one stamped "L/18" (I believe?) on the reverse of a 1st Class.

[speedytop]

Hi,

Rene Chavez:
"Just curious why would the German post- Government in 1957 re-issued Eastern Volunteer awards."

The word re-issue is not correct.

Correct is:

James Clark:
"... lists the awards allowed to be worn in the de-nazified form ..."

Allowed to be worn. In the de-nazified form. No re-issue. That is correct for all 1957 versions, they are allowed to be worn.


James Clark:
"The Ostvolk awards aren't included amongst the awards that are permitted."

These decorations are included, allowed to be worn, complete, without restrictions. The restrictions are included in the law of 1942/1943/1944.


NickG:
"... that a "post57" version would exist as no modifications are necessary."

Correct, it does not exist a 1957 version (...no modifications are necessary...), all the post WW II made Ostvolk awards are copies or/and fakes.


James Clark:
"...whether the German Ministry of the Interior still holds these samples (or pictures of them)"

No more samples, but the pictures of them, please see here, Post 12:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=201608


Regards
Uwe

[James Clark]

Thanks Uwe - the link to the 1957 pictures is very useful. I agree that these awards could be understood to be covered by the 1957 law in the way you suggest. But they are not included in the section on wearing the awards which, in relation to those worn on the 25 mm ribbon bar, lists only:

Verdienstkreuz 1.Klasse des Verdienstordens der Bundesrepublik Deutschland
Ehrenblattspange oder Ehrentafelspange
Deutsches Kreuz in Gold
Eisernes Kreuz 1.Klasse
Deutsches Kreuz in Silber
Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1.Klasse
Verdienstkreuz am Bande des Verdienstordens der Bundesrepublik Deutschland
Rettungsmedaille am Band
Eisernes Kreuz 2.Klasse
Orden und Ehrenzeichen für Verdienste im Ersten Weltkrieg in der Reihenfolge ihrer Verleihung
Nahkampf-, Frontflug- und Marinespangen und Kampfabzeichen mit Einsatzzahlen
Verwundetenabzeichen
Verdienstmedaille des Verdienstordens der Bundesrepublik Deutschland
Sonderabzeichen für Panzer- und Tieffliegervernichtung
Sturm-, Kampf- oder Kriegsabzeichen einschließlich der Schilde
Ehrenkreuz des Ersten Weltkriegs
Kriegsverdienstkreuz 2.Klasse
Medaille “Winterschlacht im Osten 1941/42”
Leistungs- und Tätigkeitsabzeichen
Deutsche Friedensauszeichnungen in der Reihenfolge ihrer Verleihung
Staatlich genehmigte Auszeichnungen in der Reihenfolge ihrer Verleihung
Ausländische Tapferkeitsauszeichnungen
Sonstige ausländische Auszeichnungen

[speedytop]

Hi James,

they are included.

We must first look into the law, the paragraphs.

§ 12 Trageweise (How to wear the decorations)
(1) (position of the decorations on the bar = Ordensschnalle):
1. Verdienstorden der Bundesrepublik Deutschland,
2. Rettungsmedaille am Bande,
...
7. Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1939
8. sonstige Auszeichnungen für Verdienste im zweiten Weltkrieg in der
Reihenfolge ihrer Verleihung, (other awards for merit in WW II in the temporal order of the awards)
...
(3) Orden dürfen auch in verkleinerter Form getragen werden. (it ia allowed, to wear them as mini or on a ribbon bar)

And than additional (Kommentar):
Your list from the Post before (Post 98), and you can find the Ostvolk awards in:
"Sturm-, Kampf- oder Kriegsabzeichen einschließlich der Schilde"


You find the decoration in the last contemporary document:
"Dr. Heinrich Doehle, Die Auszeichnungen des grossdeutschen Reiches, Berlin 1945"
listed in:
III. Abzeichen
A. Die Waffenabzeichen des Heeres
I. Kampfabzeichen
a) Wehrmacht
1, Der Narvikschild
...
6. Die Tapferkeits- und Verdienstauszeichnung für Angehörige der Ostvölker

In the book from 1958 "Geeb/Kirchner, Deutsche Orden und Ehrenzeichen, Bonn 1958"
you find it listed:
B. Waffenabzeichen
1. Kampfabzeichen
I. Wehrmacht
a) Der Narvikschild
...
c) Die Tapferkeits- und Verdienstauszeichnung für Angehörige der Ostvölker
...

In the book from 1958 "Krantz, Orden und Ehrenzeichen der Bundesrepublik Deutschland, Köln 1958"
you find it listed:
Sonstige Auszeichnungen des 2. Weltkrieges, die künftig wieder getragen werden dürfen
...
9. Das Verwundetenabzeichen des 2. Weltkrieges
10. Die Tapferkeits- und Verdienstauszeichnungen für Angehörige der Ostvölker
...

Regards
Uwe

[Don D.]

Good stuff here. We almost never talk regulations. Keep it up.

[James Clark]

Thanks Uwe, this is good information.

I don't know why the 1957 list I found at first differs from yours, but I've since found the one you have and you're absolutely right.

I always found it odd that Doehle listed these under "III. Abzeichen A. Die Waffenabzeichen der Wehrmacht I. Kampfabzeichen" when he could have put them under "I.... A. Kriegsauszeichnungen". It seems strange to me that they can be Auszeichnungen but also Abzeichen (especially the 2nd class - I don't usually think of awards on ribbons as being Abzeichen). What's more, in the text Doehle says "Die Auszeichnung wird als Kampfabzeichen mit Schwerter (Tapferkeits-Auszeichnung) and als Verdienstabzeichen ohne Schwerter (Verdienst-Auszeichnung)... Verliehen." So the Verdienst-Auszeichnung is listed with the Kampfabzeichen even though it is a Verdienstabzeichen. I suppose it was just easier that way.

I don't know the other two books you mention, but they sound interesting. Kranz certainly clarifies the point about continued wear of these awards, which was what I was most interested in.

[Jono]

Referring to the original issue of rope v non rope, i know many of us are now on board but this is another interesting example to support the non rope variety;

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=254370

I see Don already spotted it and got us the close up.

[Peter J.]

A publication from Tony Oliver is hardly any reference worth considering

cheers
Peter

[Tom Yanacek]

A publication from Tony Oliver is hardly any reference worth considering

cheers
Peter

I agree. These are artistic renderings that need to be viewed only as post-war artwork. They may look nice, but they are loaded with proportional inaccuracies and even some of the overall shapes are completely wrong.
Best regards,
Tom

[Peppe864]

A publication from Tony Oliver is hardly any reference worth considering

cheers
Peter

AMEN to that brother