Unusual 1941 FJ helmet cover

[SMP]

I do have copies of a helmet shown on GHW:
Same material, same construction, same colours. This one was on the helmet when it came from the vet in 1985 . That's the story.

[Michael Kuligowski]

I do have copies of a helmet shown on GHW:
Same material, same construction, same colours.

well... with this proof, I think typing anything else here would be a waist of time. RIP

[Maus]

One more!

[SMP]

Where did you find that one, Raoul ?

[Maus]

Found it in my data base Steve.

[Willi Z.]

I believe 2 identical covers ( same maker ) were on sale at the 2007 SOS show. I think these are the ones Willi was referring to. I'm afraid I don't have any photos.

Is that correct Willi ?

I have handled several of these, to include a draw string one with the same markings. A draw string cover dated 1941 should sound warning bells to any FJ collector.

The one Steve posted is another I, and many others familiar with FJ covers, have handled. One will find that while the cover is sized "66" it is on a size "71" shell.

[Ysto]

FJ cover

Normally, Germans used Rbnr in 1944 ... not stamp with maker's name (see tan bandoleers)

Ysto

[BrunoH]

Hi SMP,

When you write "This one was on the helmet when it came from the vet in 1985...", do you knwo what explanation comes with it ?
I mean, the helmet may be an original one and its owner had decided to put a fake on it ? Just to be sure that I understand the purpose of this behaviour

By the way, do you have any information about the way this cover has been made: From an original tan zeltbahn, from 100 % fake fabrics ? Made for reenactor ? For a 'special' vet. order ?

Thanks very much in advance

Best regards and thanks for the pictures.

[John Hodgin]

Hi SMP,

When you write "This one was on the helmet when it came from the vet in 1985...", do you knwo what explanation comes with it ?
I mean, the helmet may be an original one and its owner had decided to put a fake on it ? Just to be sure that I understand the purpose of this behaviour

Someone put the cover on an average helmet to greatly increase the value of the helmet and deceive a trusting, decent collector. This is not the first time, nor the last, that a fake will come from a veteran. Knowledge is more important than a "story."

Why does this matter to you?

The cover is a fake, many of which have been illustrated here. As Willi has stated, size stamps which do not even match the actual cover size. The markings are not even close to originals. The covers are old junk, produced in the 1980s.

[Gran Sasso]

The covers are old junk, produced in the 1980s.

And therefore its possible, that somebody got one back then, and it ended up in an attic in normandie, among other original stuff. In the 25+ years since, there was enough time to rust, for spiderwebs, etc.

Voila! - A cover found!

[BrunoH]

...
Why does this matter to you?
...

Hi John,

The only matter for me is to clearly understand what is said.
I understand it's a fake but because of the sentence (SMP's one):

"This one (the cover helmet discussed - or a looks like) was on the helmet when it came from the vet..."

in which I can read "vet" which accreditate the "original" aspect, I just wanted to be sure that it was clear for everybody reading this post.

Your sentence "Someone put the cover on an average helmet to greatly increase the value of the helmet and deceive a trusting, decent collector. This is not the first time, nor the last, that a fake will come from a veteran. Knowledge is more important than a "story." is clear. That's all I wanted to be written so there is no ambiguity in SMP assertion.

Thanks

Best regards

PS: I don't take care about nice stories but I like to be sure that I've clearly understood...

[H BABERT]

Someone put the cover on an average helmet to greatly increase the value of the helmet and deceive a trusting, decent collector. This is not the first time, nor the last, that a fake will come from a veteran. Knowledge is more important than a "story."

Why does this matter to you?

The cover is a fake, many of which have been illustrated here. As Willi has stated, size stamps which do not even match the actual cover size. The markings are not even close to originals. The covers are old junk, produced in the 1980s.

Hi John,
the "owner" of the cover found in normandy still want to believe...his story, that's it
regards
Herlé

[John Hodgin]

A correction for my last post. The helmet and cover's owner PM'ed me to say that he did not pay a lot for the helmet and cover when he bought them in 1985. Still, while a very good price, they were not cheap by 1980s pricing. Jump smocks were $500 to $800 in 1985!

Allow me to share a story I told the owner which I have posted on WAF before in other threads:

I have encountered several veterans who unknowingly had bad pieces.

One was a friend in the neighborhood where I grew up, a professor who spoke fluent German and Russian, and who fought in the Ardennes. In the 1960s a boyfriend of one the professor's daughters stole daggers (a chained SS and chained SA) the professor had brought home. The boyfriend replaced the daggers with repro copies so they would not be missed. The professor did not look at the daggers often, (they were in a trunk in his basement) and did not discover the switch til a year later when a dagger collector heard of the pieces and visited the professor wanting to buy the daggers and other militaira. The professor also bought back other very nice militaria, including other superb daggers, DKGs, SS tabs, NSDAP pole tops, SS buckles, SS cuff bands, and all kinds of insignia, and a mint P38. The professor never got his daggers back. By then boyfriend was long gone and no longer dating his daughter and nothing could really be proven, except that the boyfriend often looked at the militaria when he visited while he and the daughter watched TV in the basement.

When the dagger collector informed the professor his daggers were reproductions, the professor replied that this was impossible, he "had brought them home himself!" Only after studying the repro daggers closely, did he realize he had been robbed.

So, I for one, can easily imagine that the helmet in question, the one Steve has posted, once had another cover on it.

Please consider how it fits the helmet, loose on the top, it is not even constructed correctly.

John

[SMP]

Hi SMP,

When you write "This one was on the helmet when it came from the vet in 1985...", do you knwo what explanation comes with it ?
I mean, the helmet may be an original one and its owner had decided to put a fake on it ? Just to be sure that I understand the purpose of this behaviour

By the way, do you have any information about the way this cover has been made: From an original tan zeltbahn, from 100 % fake fabrics ? Made for reenactor ? For a 'special' vet. order ?

Thanks very much in advance

Best regards and thanks for the pictures.

Hi Bruno,

I think John has answered this point, but I should explain. The helmet and cover were posted on GHW. The owner (who is also a member here BTW ) keeps meticulous records of all his helmet purchases. He said the helmet and cover were bought together in 1985 from a vet. So, you can be sure these covers are at least 25 years old ! Of course, as John proved, no one can be 100% sure how or when the vet acquired it.

I did not mean to imply the cover must be real.

Regards,
Steve

[BrunoH]

Thanks Steve
That's all I wanted to see written.
Have a good day and thanks for the pictures.

About the 'age' of the cover helmet shown (> 25 years), it explains why it may have a kind of 'old' smeeling (even if not original).

Regards