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    #1

    Fake Dachau-Ausweise

    Hello collectors and interested,
    On occasion, I point out that this type of ID cards are well-made fake ID cards. I looked up the name in the Federal Archives in Berlin and this research resulted in two false reports. These badges do not have the typical frames that ship in the printing house and are therefore significantly recognizable as counterfeits. Who buys these badges, buys scrap.

    BR
    Potsdam

    Tags: None
    #2
    Könnten Sie uns auch bitte Ihre Gedanken auf Deutsch mitteilen? Keine Beleidigung, aber Ihre Erklärung auf Englisch macht für Englisch-sprechende Leute keinen Sinn.

    Comment

      #3
      KZ Dachau Ausweis

      Originally posted by Stormfighter View Post
      Könnten Sie uns auch bitte Ihre Gedanken auf Deutsch mitteilen? Keine Beleidigung, aber Ihre Erklärung auf Englisch macht für Englisch-sprechende Leute keinen Sinn.
      Also:
      1. Der Text ist mit einem Programm übersetzt und enthält keinerlei Beleidigungen.
      2. Der Ausweis ist eine Fälschung weil:
      a. ab 1939 keine Ausweise aus Texitilmaterial mehr ausgeteilt wurden.
      b. die Machart in keiner Weise den damals üblichen Standart entspricht. Das ist besonders am schwarzen Rahmen zu sehen, der bei einem Original - was es ab 1939 immer nur aus Pappkarton gab - Besonderheiten aufweist, die die Fälscher aber nicht kennen, ich aber.
      c. Die Person im Bundesarchiv Berlin nicht nachweisbar ist, was deswegen komisch ist, da er auf dem Bild eine Vorkriegsuniform - siehe Paspelierung am Kragen und die eckigen Schulterklappen - trägt und dann noch nicht einmal eine SS-Nummer hat.
      d. Daraus folgt die Frage, wie ein so junger Mann vor dem Krieg SS-Unterscharführer sein konnte?
      e. Die Unterschrift von Piorkowski sieht auch selbstgemacht aus.

      Fazit: Der Fälscher hatte sicherlich einge Kenntnisse des K.l. Dachau aber eben nicht ausreichend. Die Arbeit an sich ist ganz gut und enthält deswegen auch nur Fehler, die eben nur ein absoluter Profi sehen kann. Dummerweise für ihn schreibe ich gerade ein mehrere tausend Seiten umfassendes Gesamtwerk zu den SS-Totenkopfverbänden und Konzentrationslagern, so das ich in der Lage bin so jeden Fake zu erkennen. Bei den Ausweisen - es gibt 2 - habe ich aber auch eine Weil gebraucht.

      MfG
      Potsdam

      Comment

        #4
        Hi there ! Perhaps it's just me... but I see none Document attached or included to your Thread, it would be nice to see what you are talking about, to fully benefit from your Expertise. Many thanks / Besten Dank. L.

        Comment

          #5
          There was an image yesterday....
          Photos/images copyright © Ian Jewison collection

          Collecting interests: Cavalry units, 1 Kavallerie/24 Panzer Division, Stukageschwader 1

          Comment

            #6
            I still see the image in the starting thread. Can't comment on originality though. Was actually hoping to learn from this thread.

            Comment

              #7
              this is the image, i could see it yesterday not anymore
              Attached Files

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by Daniele C View Post
                this is the image, i could see it yesterday not anymore
                Thanks for reposting the photo. Very strange that it was removed.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Hello Potsdam,
                  I hope you don't mind but I've added a rough english translation of your comments back into the thread.

                  Thank you for sharing your knowledge of this pass with the community.




                  1. The text is translated with a program and contains no insults (?)
                  2. The card is a fake because:
                  a. from 1939 no passes were issued from Texitil material more.
                  b. the style in no way corresponds to the then usual standard. This can be seen in particular on the black frame, which has an original - which was from 1939 always only made of cardboard - features that the forgers do not know, but I do.
                  c. The person in the Federal Archives Berlin is not detectable, which is strange because he wears a prewar uniform in the picture - see piping on the collar and the square epaulettes - and then even does not even have an SS number.
                  d. From this follows the question of how such a young man could be SS-Unterscharführer before the war?
                  e. The signature of Piorkowski also looks homemade.

                  Conclusion: The forger certainly had a knowledge of the K.l. Dachau but just not enough. The work itself is quite good and therefore contains only errors that only an absolute professional can see. Stupidly for him, I am currently writing a complete body of several thousand pages to the SS-Totenkopfverbände and concentration camps, so that I am able to recognize every fake. The ID cards - there are 2 - but I also needed a while.







                  .

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Sonderkommando View Post
                    Hello Potsdam,
                    I hope you don't mind but I've added a rough english translation of your comments back into the thread.

                    Thank you for sharing your knowledge of this pass with the community.




                    1. The text is translated with a program and contains no insults (?)
                    2. The card is a fake because:
                    a. from 1939 no passes were issued from Texitil material more.
                    b. the style in no way corresponds to the then usual standard. This can be seen in particular on the black frame, which has an original - which was from 1939 always only made of cardboard - features that the forgers do not know, but I do.
                    c. The person in the Federal Archives Berlin is not detectable, which is strange because he wears a prewar uniform in the picture - see piping on the collar and the square epaulettes - and then even does not even have an SS number.
                    d. From this follows the question of how such a young man could be SS-Unterscharführer before the war?
                    e. The signature of Piorkowski also looks homemade.

                    Conclusion: The forger certainly had a knowledge of the K.l. Dachau but just not enough. The work itself is quite good and therefore contains only errors that only an absolute professional can see. Stupidly for him, I am currently writing a complete body of several thousand pages to the SS-Totenkopfverbände and concentration camps, so that I am able to recognize every fake. The ID cards - there are 2 - but I also needed a while.







                    .

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Hello !

                      I can't comment on the topic itself, I just would like to thank colleague Potsdam for his obviously very detailed and
                      well done research and also for sharing it to the members of WAF !

                      The second thing is, what I don't understand at all :
                      Just as Lionel, I never saw the picture itself the days before (even when logged in).
                      Today, it does show up at least in the repost by Daniele, but yesterday, I also couldn't see it in his post ?!
                      Is this another "variant" of the general forum problems ?!

                      Best regards,

                      Archi

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Archi View Post
                        Just as Lionel, I never saw the picture itself the days before (even when logged in). Today, it does show up at least in the repost by Daniele, but yesterday, I also couldn't see it in his post ?! Is this another "variant" of the general forum problems ?! Best regards, Archi
                        I could see it when it was originally posted, not sure why it vanished?!?

                        Although I do not collect Kl related paperwork, I do find it interesting to see original examples posted however, with the amount of Ausweis, Soldbucher and Wehrpass posted in recent times which have been exposed as fake, I for one would like to see an in depth study of these documents.

                        While exposing these might 'hurt' some dealers and collectors alike, surely it would benefit the collecting community in the long run, and while some will say this will help the fakers themselves by detailing certain entries etc. I think an a detailed study is long overdue for colectors and those interested in the history behind them alike.

                        Just my 2p.

                        Regards Richard.
                        Always looking for Luftwaffe Kampfflieger related document groups. In particular anything to Kampfgeschwader 2.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          "Admire those that seek the truth but run from those who claim they have found it"

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Ausweis View Post
                            "Admire those that seek the truth but run from those who claim they have found it"
                            I will translate for member Potsdam:

                            Bewundern Sie diejenigen, die die Wahrheit suchen, laufen Sie jedoch vor denen, die behaupten, sie gefunden zu haben


                            Member Potsdam is well known among KZ material collectors. He uses to send quite bothering PMs to honest collectors and tell about his "special knowledge", calling their original material as "total c**p/fake" and so on. Now he also opens threads of similar content as we can see.


                            This KZ Dachau ausweis is 100% original and exteremely rare of course - I wonder why none said this as of yet - may be because not many ever had a chance to handle these..

                            Here is similar one from advanced US collection, it was already posted and approved here on this very forum - note identical characteristics:
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by Michael73; 11-04-2018, 12:56 PM.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              I know about another similar Dachau Ausweis together with matching Soldbuch - but have no permision to post it from the owner as of yet

                              Comment

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