very interesting document!!!
Oriano
Oriano
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I am not so sure about this Wehrpass grouping.
For a last ditch document group , it has a lot of offical stampings .
Can you see what number is on the boys shoulderstraps ?
It would be best researched/discussed if you could post it on the HJ Research forum.Comment
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Thank you all for your replies!
I would have posted it there but it looks like you already took the liberty yourself.Originally posted by joecool View Post
The shoulderboards are number 206, which is indeed the correct number for Oelsnitz.
Below are some more entries with 'official stampings' ...Comment
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Originally posted by joecool View Post
...but I'm sure - it´s a fake grouping.
Original Wehrpass with nice portrait photo for a HJ boy of Plauen who never had anything with Berlin was upgraded with many fake stamps and entries.
All Berlin related stamps and entries are fake, and of course also all "Pz. Vern. Brig. HJ" stamps and entries.
A very similar fake grouping was recently for sale on Mülli321 and few similar groupings (Pz.Vern. Brig.HJ) and another I've seen for sale on German dealers at the Militariabörse in Kassel and Reichertshofen. With absolutely identical stamps, ink color and handwritings. Only coincidence?
They're all very good fakes from the same workshop as various SS, Tiger, Panther, GD and other rare (and high valuable ) unit groupings which are discovering here for a longer time (the same type of stamps, handwriting, ink ...).
Yes, a lot of people are upset always when I wrote about these fakes, because they don´t want to believe it...
Here the Mülli321 grouping (the HJ Schießabzeichen Besitzzeugnis is original):Comment
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comparison:Comment
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fake WBK Berlin VI entries:Comment
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Maybe would be some members so kindly and could for us prepare a good resolution scan of WBK Berlin VI stamps from late war issued Wehrpass ?
Comparison of stamps would be very interesting!
Unfortunately, I have only image of late war WBK Berlin VI issued WP in poor quality, but please note the difference:Comment
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a really interesting analysis Kuratorim !! these "vivisection" topics are my favorites ... thanks OrianoComment
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Kuratorium,
I believe you are right. Looking at page 5, the Musterung, why would someone from Plauen be reassigned to Wehrbezirkskommando Berlin? Would his family move into a battle zone? I think I liked it because I wanted it to be original.
JeffComment
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Great Work from Kuratorium. Congratulations, very sincerely. I was waiting that anybody demonstrates that this Group is a complete fake, and don't want to give Tim the Opinion I want to disturb his Selling. This Group has appeared on the Market for at least one month, was proposed to several well known tankkillers Collectors, for a quite low, well, say very reasonable Price, nothing to compare with the Price of such a rarity would had if it has been an original. ... None bought it.... and a german good Friend of mine called me about it....BEFORE having seen the Group, I was already surprised by this "superprice".... as I received the scans by Email, I first laughed seing the signature "Frank" on the "Award"..... but thereafter, without the interesting point of comparison furnished by K., I must say I was impressed by the WP... The only thing who really disturbed me at first glance was exactly the Point someone mentioned before : the full of Stamps and especially the stamped dates which are not very common in very late WP's (or SB's).
I also love the sentence from Jeff : "I think I liked it because I wanted it to be original"... Very right ! And probably the reason why Tim bought it too !Comment
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Very good analysis and demonstration. The knowleadge some people show on the forum is impressive.
To be devils advocate though, having similar stamps and signatures would be normal for two soldiers in the same company, but in this case it indeed seems to good to be true.
Another point to consider: it is suspicious when a "top piece" is sold every few months like a hot potato, or sold in public for a low price. Good to pieces "sell on a phone call" or sell for big bucks.Comment
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Top notch work, a pity that this ended to be a forgery, but better before offering it for sale, at least nobody can question your honesty.
Being myself burned not once but twice with TDB pieces I really know how you feel.
Sometimes there are such wonderful pieces that our desire that they will be fine blurred our senses and we need someone to put us in the real world.
Being so rare in the market TDB pieces always fetch high prices so first warning will be when offered for a fraction of its price and, as stated here by several others, when it pop up too often into the market. Myself have only three Soldbuchs and one Wehrpass from TDB and not see in the near future them into the market and other collectors are in the same opinion of mine.
This is an expensive lesson and I am deeply sorry for you Tim, but don't give up is only a small obstacle in your way.
Angel
Looking for DKiG Heer winner Soldbuch who also won the TDB and/or CCC, specially in Silver.Comment
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Yes a fake grouping. !!!Comment
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Thank you all for your comments. I guess this one would have fooled most of us. Luckily I showed it here before selling.Comment
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